When?

OldDog

Administrator Emeritus
Joined
Oct 31, 2003
Likes
0
Location
Essex Junction, Vermont
#3
Nope, nobody does...here, anyway. Major Woody told me that when he was out there, every time someone brought up the word "date", all the EA people left the room, or stared at floors or ceilings.
 

rudedog

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 23, 2002
Likes
13
#4
As of today, there really isn't any release date.

MY PERSONAL TAKE ON THIS mid to late 2007 Again THIS IS MY GUESS AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY INFO FROM EA

 
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Likes
0
Location
Hallstahammar, Sweden
#6
As of today, there really isn't any release date.

MY PERSONAL TAKE ON THIS mid to late 2007 Again THIS IS MY GUESS AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY INFO FROM EA

On what do you make your guess? What's your thoughts on this? The delay of Vista, containing directx 10? EA's usual delays? Some plans on releasing the title at all platforms at the same time?

Anyone who has heard if it will support dx10 or not?

I clearly recall EA stated it was delayed to q1 2007. Lets say you're right in your guess, wouldn't it be time to announce more delay by now then? Anyone who remembers how EA's acted before with the other MOH titles or EA titles in general lately?

I don't think COD2 will last to late next year... anyone who thinks different? :s
 

rudedog

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 23, 2002
Likes
13
#7
TBH I did not even consider vista/DX10 and I would think EA is not even considering these as MOH:A is not a Vista release title (unless MS wants them to try and match what Activision did with CoD2 for the Xbox - oh god please NO!)

With the limited info (no info) on MP, plus past experience has me believe mid to the end of 2007. You also have to remember, they are working with a new engine, not only the MOH team but EA itself. This has to add some delay in, in-house production and work flow with all the new tools.

I also believe they want to do things right this time, thus later in 2007 then we all hoped for.

Now with that said, do I wish I'm wrong - HELL YES. I hope we see the game pre March.......

As far as CoD2, lasting until next year, I would hope IW/ACT has CoD4 out by then, but then again if it's a modern day shooter... I'll pass. why would I play a modern day CoD when I will have Crysis, HL2-EP2 and all its addons, QW-ET, BFx and all it's great mods.

It looks like MOH:A will have the WWII theme (older up gamers) all to it self. If FH2 can get it's act together and release their WWII mod for BF2, I'll be very happy waiting for MOHA.
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Likes
0
Location
Hallstahammar, Sweden
#8
Didn't MS demand that a pc title (can't remember which) wasn't released before the xbox 360 version erlier this year?

EA wants to do things right this time, yeah, lets all hope for that but with one delay of at least three months so far, another six months delay isn't doing things right. That's irritating the community.

To me it looks like q1 2007 is past and gone for this title considering no release date or other release information has come from EA yet.

It's strange how the software industry can promise things and when they feel like it change delivery date, that could not happen in any other seller/customer relationship.

Ok, a promise and a news flash isn't really the same thing bot close enough to me.

One other thing that I thought of yesterday was the EALA community thing they had. Not one question got an answer, at least not to the community so you could ask yourself for what they did this. Was it to keep the "important" part of the community silent or was it for the comunity as a whole?

If you ask me, nothing good has been brought to the community from that event. How interesting can it be to read about people gathering in LA, eating breakfast, getting to meet some developers and recieving some gadgets. Because that's just about what we know happened there. Cool, can I have some gadgets too? EA could have spent that time publishing wallpapers or even doing some sharity work. That event took place just because EA perhaps could get some "free" input as well as a bribe to gag some hand picked people, in other words, it happened because EA could benefit from it, not the community. Ok, the participants said they liked what they saw of the game but that's just their oppinion, it doesn't say i will.

Blackhat has a really difficult work, to keep the community happy - giving them nothing. I saw someone over at EA's forums who asked for some new pictures as a "christmas gift", he couldn't even do that. He had to take the blame on that himself. No need to say Blackhat is doing a good job, he gets enough of that at EA's forum. he's like a God in there.

To me it's more important to communicate what they do wrong. They will (perhaps) be rewarded for a good job when they see the game selling statistics. We're not on a lifetime contract with EA, we are free to go elseware if the don't keep their word or missbehave in any way. This past summer I contacted my insurance company to have a look at a problem with my house. They came, had a look but treated me like a criminal instead of a customer asking questions like in a criminal hearing. i would have accepted a simple "no, this isn't covered by your insurance" but not that kind of treatment so now they don't sell any insurances to me anymore. Perhaps it's more expensive at the new company, i don't care, I want to be treated with respect but perhaps that's just because i'm an old salesman. Some people/customers do take a lot of shit and I can't understand why, no customers - no pay check, it's really that simple.

I will always speak out what i feel is wrong and stand for it, i will never be invited to a EA event.

I know, i went too far with this one :eek:
 

rudedog

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 23, 2002
Likes
13
#9
As far as that PC title, let's not even go there.....

Oh how I agree with many of your issues but I also know Blackhat is trying his best and as much as he wants to feed us more info, then he can. His hands are somewhat tied, not as much as other community managers and for good reasons.

Community day was more for sites supporting MOH, to show us that they have come a long way and they are listening. The hard thing is, everyone is under NDA for the most part. I can say that we don't know anything major about MP even if we where not under NDA. But I can say I spent some quality time on the phone with Blackhat and the guy in charge of MP. They took a ton of notes, listened to all my bitching and I think they will never want to talk to me again [hand]

The other thing that is different then that other PC title is Blackhat keeps in touch with us even though there is not much to say right now. In turn we try and let our members know they are working on things and believe it or not they are listening ( I need to keep saying that). With that said, I wish they where a little quicker with info and a hard release date. I really want more, a lot more of MP info.

Also Blackhat takes our "out burst" very well not as complaints but as criticism. I know I've given him an ear full as well as many of the other community members and he understands... I should say he gets it.

Blackhat deserves all the praise he gets on the official boards and around the net, (go search for his name over at IWN). He is what a true community manager should be, involved with the community. Granted right now there is not much to say but even then he is everywhere. Ok enough Blackhat kissing up to :cool:.

I'm hoping that early Jan 2007 will open the flood gates for MOH:Airborne info and a true release date. At the same time as I want info, I also want hard true facts that will not be "cut" to make the delayed release date. How I hate when a company delays a game to get everything in there only to cut things because they could not make the 3rd or 4th delayed release date, only to end up with more bugs and glitches.

While we praise Blackhat (not EA just yet) and the rest of the grunts working on MOH:Airborne, we are still a site that will bring up all the issues and let all our members like yourself voice your concerns. We will never sensor our members and their feelings like other fan sites do.

Your our main interest and Blackhat/EA knows that, we are here for you, our customer(s).

Please don't ever hesitate to voice your concerns, Blackhat is listening.

PS, Blackhat is on vacation until the end of Jan.
 

OldDog

Administrator Emeritus
Joined
Oct 31, 2003
Likes
0
Location
Essex Junction, Vermont
#10
As far as CoD2, lasting until next year, I would hope IW/ACT has CoD4 out by then, but then again if it's a modern day shooter... I'll pass. why would I play a modern day CoD when I will have Crysis, HL2-EP2 and all its addons, QW-ET, BFx and all it's great mods.

It looks like MOH:A will have the WWII theme (older up gamers) all to it self. If FH2 can get it's act together and release their WWII mod for BF2, I'll be very happy waiting for MOHA.
I'm with you, RD...its beginning to look like the "Saving Private Ryan" and "Band of Brothers" craze is over for game devs. Bad news if true.

Avarell, I don't think EA developed the game for Vista and DX10, so that's not the holdup, IMHO. A couple of us have installed the Vista RTM already, and have tried several games...very poor performance, frame rates way down. The reason is there are no drivers available as yet, especially Nvidia. We've all gone back to XP. The word (from MaximumPC) is to wait for the retail at the end of Jan.
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Likes
0
Location
Hallstahammar, Sweden
#11
I really doesn't complain at Blackhat, what i said was he has a difficult job and what I mean by that is that he gets tons of questions he can't reply to, his hands are tied. He has all my resspect, he has not failed in any way i see it.

And for the EALA event. EA calls it "MoHA Community Summit", perhaps it's my bad english but it sounds to me more of a "we gather a bunch of guys we know will spread our word, bring 'em here and show whats going on".

But i'm not totally stupid. I understood from the beginning noone was going to spread tons of in game pics, demos and such. i've been around EA too long for that.

I've said this before but here i go again. Whenever EA calls for help, the whole community (and i do not mean community as in fan site admins which i've come to learn it also means) stands in line to do whatever they ask. In return we get what? If we look at the history and make conclusions from that, we gets nothing. Noone can say today that it will be different this time, Airborne might go down the same way PA went. To me this is a one way relationship, and it is a smart solution, tons of help, suggestions, for free, from the hard core gamers.

Ah, this is going nowhere... but finally, if EA doesn't communicate progress or something better than the airdrops real soon, they've showed us all they're still the same as before. And if they gives us a new delay, they showed us their word isn't worth the bandwith. And I can't understand why we should demand less from EA than Activision.

EDIT: Lets straight one thing out. fpsadmin is my number one site when looking for fps news and perhaps learn a thing or two. Often you answer things quick and accurate to a question on a server issue for a game long gone. How do you do that? :D I am a bit irritated but not on you, not on Blackhat. My concerns is EA and what they communicate (and doesn't), and one other thing, is the god damn title going to be delayed once again?

I'm done here now, i'm pretty sure i got my thoughts on paper. Ah, one question who couldn't be to secret to answer. Will Airborn be sold as a downloadable game?
 
Last edited:

Diva

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Likes
0
Location
Seattle
#12
Personally hopefully they take their time and get it right, but in the past I waited for Pacific Assault to come out and look how that crap game turned out. I reinstalled BF2 today becasue some clan mates were playing it only 77 servers out there.

Hopefully EA will look at the past hit games like MOHAA and bring something back to the gaming world comparable to that, look how many servers are still out there for that game, we (TNT) still has two spearhead servers.

I just want to see a FPS shooter, I dont give a crap about the ranking, ranked servers and all that just give me a game I can play like mohaa with an anti-cheat for a few years to come and I would be happy and I know the rest of my clan will be also :)
 
Joined
May 1, 2006
Likes
0
#13
Hey guys...

Just wanted to address some concerns, and I'm using Avarell's quote since he seems to have most of them listed in here:

Didn't MS demand that a pc title (can't remember which) wasn't released before the xbox 360 version erlier this year?
As far as I'M aware, no such demands have been made of MoHA... of course, those wouldn't come through me, so there's a very outside chance of it, but not likely. I'm sure I'd have heard about it.

EA wants to do things right this time, yeah, lets all hope for that but with one delay of at least three months so far, another six months delay isn't doing things right. That's irritating the community.
Absolutely we want to do things right. Absolutely. Curious about your last statement, though. For months and months such a large portion of the community was telling us "Take your time to get it right and polish it up. Don't rush it out like you have in the past just to meet a release date. Finish the game." It can't go both ways. Just sayin.


To me it looks like q1 2007 is past and gone for this title considering no release date or other release information has come from EA yet.

It's strange how the software industry can promise things and when they feel like it change delivery date, that could not happen in any other seller/customer relationship.

Ok, a promise and a news flash isn't really the same thing bot close enough to me.
While I appreciate your frustration, EA's released no official release date for MoHA. Many have picked up on dates that some online retailers are listing, but EA cannot take responsibility for those, unfortunately. I'd hope that you wouldn't get irritated at us because of a retailer that listed an incorrect, or speculated release date.


One other thing that I thought of yesterday was the EALA community thing they had. Not one question got an answer, at least not to the community so you could ask yourself for what they did this. Was it to keep the "important" part of the community silent or was it for the comunity as a whole?

If you ask me, nothing good has been brought to the community from that event. How interesting can it be to read about people gathering in LA, eating breakfast, getting to meet some developers and recieving some gadgets. Because that's just about what we know happened there. Cool, can I have some gadgets too? EA could have spent that time publishing wallpapers or even doing some sharity work.

The Community Day was entirely planned and executed by me, so any negativity you feel about it you can direct at me, not EA as a whole. As for the event, my PRIMARY reasoning behind doing it was to get some key community members in here to give thoughts and feedback DIRECTLY to the developers, and also to show them where we were at thus far. You will hear more from that event in time, though.

That event took place just because EA perhaps could get some "free" input as well as a bribe to gag some hand picked people, in other words, it happened because EA could benefit from it, not the community. Ok, the participants said they liked what they saw of the game but that's just their oppinion, it doesn't say i will.
Do you know how many boards I've been to where they say "Hey! Listen to us! It's FREE input and suggestions!" When we do, now we're the bad guy for it? Everyone used to complain that myself and EA aren't really listening to the community, and then when we do it DIRECTLY (in addition to all the work I do daily on various forums), now we're getting blamed for being selfish? It's a classic lose-lose for us, it seems, and I'm really sorry to see that's the case.

Blackhat has a really difficult work, to keep the community happy - giving them nothing. I saw someone over at EA's forums who asked for some new pictures as a "christmas gift", he couldn't even do that. He had to take the blame on that himself.
The christmas thing WAS my fault. I was going to try for it, but then waited too long because I was swamped with stuff at the time. By the time I had some time to tackle the issue, most people had left for the holidays (people who would have to approve stuff like that). It was entirely my fault. I dropped the ball by waiting too long, and I own up to that. I'm not going to give you some spin on it to cover my butt. That's just the way it happened.

To me it's more important to communicate what they do wrong. They will (perhaps) be rewarded for a good job when they see the game selling statistics. We're not on a lifetime contract with EA, we are free to go elseware if the don't keep their word or missbehave in any way. This past summer I contacted my insurance company to have a look at a problem with my house. They came, had a look but treated me like a criminal instead of a customer asking questions like in a criminal hearing. i would have accepted a simple "no, this isn't covered by your insurance" but not that kind of treatment so now they don't sell any insurances to me anymore. Perhaps it's more expensive at the new company, i don't care, I want to be treated with respect but perhaps that's just because i'm an old salesman. Some people/customers do take a lot of shit and I can't understand why, no customers - no pay check, it's really that simple.
I'm a HUGE proponent of Customer Service, myself. I like to treat customers (and community) right. It's just in my blood. That why, even when I don't have anything new to release, I'm on the forums every day seeing what people are saying and trying to at least be involved in the conversations. Even when I'm not saying much, you all are, and it's important to me that I hear what you're saying. Sometimes, though, there's just nothing to tell you. It happens, from time to time. That's just part of the process in some cases. That doesn't mean that the game is falling off the face of the earth or that we're going to leave you all in the dark about it.

I know you all don't know me personally, but you're just going to have to trust me when I say that you will get a ton of information as soon as I can get it to you. Would you believe that When I started at EA, I created a roadmap with an Airdrop EVERY SINGLE WEEK until release? Obviously, a lot's changed since then, but the ideas for all those Airdrops still exist, and I'll be utilizing them as soon as I can. Because there are a lot of different types of fans out there, some of the information will appeal to you, some will not. But you're GOING to get a lot of info when it's appropriate. Just gotta bear with me for now and trust that I'm not trying to screw you over. Deal?

I will always speak out what i feel is wrong and stand for it, i will never be invited to a EA event.
You SHOULD speak out. I personally don't feel like you've been particularly wronged, but I've listened to you when you say you have. And I'll do my best to try to avoid situations that make you or anyone else feel that way as we move ahead. At the end of the day, I can do a lot... but only so much ;)

I know, i went too far with this one :eek:
Not at all. Thanks for the feedback. It is honest, but not bitchy :D I'm fine with negative criticism, as long as it's constructive. What I don't like are people who go around bitching about EA just to bitch. That doesn't actually help anyone. However, when someone takes the time and energy to draw up specific concerns, I'll do my best to address them in any way that I can.



*whew* My fingers are tired now :)

By the way... Happy New Year, everyone!
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 1, 2006
Likes
0
#14
To me this is a one way relationship, and it is a smart solution, tons of help, suggestions, for free, from the hard core gamers.
I'm confused... you were just complaining that it was wrong of us to hold an event wherein we get some of this "free" input. You can't have it both ways.
 

GaSplat

Administrator
Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Likes
2
Location
St Louis
#15
I work in software development so I understand some of the uncertainties and trade offs you have to make when managing such a project. I recently downloaded a demo for a (non-EA, non-FPS title which will go unnamed) that was horribly buggy. Yeah they put out a lot of fixes since then, but none apply to the demo, and paying customers were alpha/beta testing. Not good! I did not buy it. I am glad that MOH-A appears to be getting the time it needs to be completed and polished - particularly given the fact that the underlying engine was changed - presumably to produce a better product. A lot of companies would have "protected their investment in the current engine" to crank out a product faster and start getting cash. The longer view (build quality the franchise can grow on and can be carried forward in new titles/expansions) is not always what the accountants want to see for the next quarterly report.

I am encouraged (strangely) by the delays as I truly hope this means the end product will be worth our investment as gamers.

Also appreciate the open communication flow. Balancing the desire to feed information against the need to not overpromise, inflate expectations, or mislead by being too enthusiastic or announcing things before they are adequately locked in is always a challenge. Keep up the good work!
 

Avarell_Dalton

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Likes
0
Location
Hallstahammar, Sweden
#16
I'm confused... you were just complaining that it was wrong of us to hold an event wherein we get some of this "free" input. You can't have it both ways.

Ok, i'm going to try to sort this out and a s i've stated a couple of times in here english isn't my mother tounge.

The community event was blown up to something it never was intended to be if you ask me.

In a way, the tension was accelerated as the event came closer and, i must say, i got carried away thinking we should at least get some info that the communitys work (input) had paid off. The persons invited (cannot provide proof or links) asked for questions to bring with them to be asked, they may have asked for whishes but i don't remember it that way. No one actually said, "As soon as i'm back i'm gonna give you ALL the answers given and a video from my hidden camera".

Well, I can say, tomorrow it's not going to be sunny and you think, aha, it's going to be cloudy, right? But i live in the northern part of Sweden and at this time of the year the sun never comes up over the horison so it's not going to be either sunny or cloudy, it's going to be a clear day.

What i want to say is that when someone say community day it is a day for the community in my world.

I wasn't saying it was all wrong of you to have that event. But i do feel it was totally wrong to call it something with "community" in it.

The people invited was very special persons from very important media which both EA and the community relays on. We all saw what this persons can do to a title less than a year ago. This was like the city council having a closed meeting and communicated to the citicens they where to hold a community meeting. No one came in and nothing slipped out.



And while i'm at it. Lets go the whole way. If i'm having such a big problem getting understood, why don't i use the swedish EA site you might ask. Well, i could - if i'm not interested to read news, that site is useless if you want to read news, the last time i searched for airborne the search came up with nothing. So i populated the american MOH forums a couple of years ago. The main forum page took like two minutes to load and what i could read was that people were very irritated of this and that and i responded to something and made some complaints and suddenly i got an email stating i have had a message deleted due to violating one or more things stated in a list of things. The automated email also stated that i could reply to it if i wanted and so i did. I asked exactly what was out of line in my message. No reply from EA. I know what i wrote, it was a complaint on the slow speed of the forum (i have adsl 23/2,5Mbit), it was critics on EA. I was one among a lot of others, nothing ever happened, no one ever answered. Obviosly someone read what we wrote since at least my post was deleted. We were more or less ignored.

I'm not a person who fire up at an instant, but eventually i do and at that point i know i sometimes go too far. i should just let it go, it's not worth the effort, it's just irritating and time consuming.

So, your reply BH is the first reply i ever got from an EA representative. I know i have spoken about EA colored by my erlier experienses. That is what i do, i act according to erlier experienses, and i'm sure everyone do.

I made a promise to myself after PA. i will not buy a new game at full prize until i have tried a fully patched retail version and i (and the community) like what i/we see. The first PA patch was released at the same day the game hit the stores in Sweden, the next patch took a year to be released.

You can get a bad reputation over night, a good one takes years to get. This have to have a biological reason, this is like a law of the nature, i didn't come up with it. EA cannot expect us, the customers, to just forget the past. I read what you write BH, and i believe you, but i also remember.


Perhaps i get most of the things i read in english wrong, perhaps i should stick to swedish (sites) - or perhaps worldwide companies should start to communicate in more than three languages.

Oh, btw, i don't live in the northern part of sweden but the other thing was true, the sun doesn't come up at this time of the year...
 

Avarell_Dalton

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Likes
0
Location
Hallstahammar, Sweden
#17
One last thing. you cannot expect your customers to understand every bit of the making of a product, especially when it's kept as secret as it gets. Even the police leaks more information than EA.

I'm done here. I will probably return, but only as a reader. I have a scene here in sweden, i'll stick to that.


hands up all german and french readers! my guess is that it's less than ten percent of the readers, they rarely speak english.
 
Joined
May 1, 2006
Likes
0
#18
Avarell - I think you misunderstood my posts to be adversarial. They were not. I apologize if things surrounding the community summit didn't go as you expected. The people invited were the people that operate or take an active part in major community websites, and are thus largely considered to be a representative slice of the community, largely in tune with the communities concerns and desires. It's impossible to invite the ENTIRE community here. I don't have that kind of budget ;)

I also openly didn't invite people that just want to talk about how they think EA has screwed them over in the past. While I appreciate your position, it doesn't really accomplish much. I invited people that I knew had thus far been actively engaged in the conversation about MoHA, and who I think could offer some really useful feedback - both positive and negative.

By no means am I suggesting you should stick to the Swedish site. You're welcome on any site that will have you. I certainly have no issues with you. In fact, I have rather enjoyed this dialogue in this thread. Communication is the cornerstone of community.
 

ButchCassidy

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2004
Likes
2
#19
"Communication is the cornerstone of community" Now that is something you can take to the bank.

Communication=Information=Support....

I have over the last couple of weeks been visiting many sites and talking to a great many people etc about Airborne.

And the vast majority do want this game to be a complete and polished release with the Dev team taking longer if needed to get it right...But the overriding concern from almost all has been the MP element.
Many are concerned that with so little information released the comparisons to IW and the CoD2 release where the MP information was not released almost until the game itself hit the shelves and the huge CoD community found themselves with an MP that was in reality identical to the original two year old game and was in fact so poorly put together it ultimately destroyed the CoD PC community along with almost the entire modding community with it!!!

Please remember Blackhat that their is still even now a very big MOH community who have been held together by the MP element of the original and its expansion packs and on top of that a huge amount of CoD players wanting to see a game that will put paid to the bad taste that CoD2 left in their mouths.

In these modern times with ever increasing bandwidth becoming available people are playing online as a matter of preference.
When the Single player is finished all that's left to keep the game alive is the Multiplayer and the modding and mapping communities that will grow from it.

To many all they are getting at the moment is very little to encourage them that this side of the game is anything more than a few lines on memo as a "To be done" item.

I think a little "Airdrop" on the overall plan for the multiplayer would encourage everyone and would show whether the Dev team have in fact been "listening".

No one is asking for the full details but more a good outline of what you hope to bring to the multiplayer for the new game.
I think the only thing people so far have seen are some comments made by Pat Gilmore when asked "Does the game have a multiplayer mode?"

He replied

"Yes the game will have a multiplayer mode. It will include around 7 Maps, 12-15 players or more and primarily Death-match focused."

This was to most MOH players and those hoping to join from the CoD community a little disheartening to say the least...So a little more than one brief paragraph would be most welcome at this stage..as you so rightly stated "Communication is the cornerstone of community"

Here's hoping you are listening?

Many thanks

Butch
 
Top Bottom