Honesty settings

[Rimmel]

Hi Guys, all i want is to set honesty settings with my server.

e.g. make sure people are not using the no fog cheat..... cvar

Will your tool do this??? if so how?

PS also forcing team balance would be good

thanks

[Hammer]

Check Buzz_Litebeer's MAM_Security module in the MoH_AdminMod package. It's primarily developed to interface with MOHAACI, so you may want to look at that as well.

--[MC] Hammer

[Buzz_Litebeer]

Yea there is no real reason to actually "force" honesty, since the actual variables are static once set, IE you cannot change them anyway, so to "force" honesty is only to allow those that have actually cheated to get by.

so we force all honesty setting vars to "hacked" and go from there. If you plan to use hammers goodies, remember not to use his force honesty in conjunction wiht MAM_security, since they would probably be likely to cause some problems with each other.

MAM_Security is specifically created to stop what i call "soft" cheating, IE setting vars up in newconfig.cfg, and general low level newbie kind of cheating.

The Hard cheats are... less than stoppable.

basically if you expect someone of hard cheating you make him/her take a screenshot, then you make them send the screenshot to you.

thats about all there is on that.

[Rimmel]

"Yea there is no real reason to actually "force" honesty, since the actual variables are static once set, IE you cannot change them anyway, so to "force" honesty is only to allow those that have actually cheated to get by. "

what?? what are you talking about???

So you cant force honesty by forcing skins??? is that not forcing people to use stock game skins????

All I want to do is stop people using the fog cheat.. is that not possible? e.g. if someone has the "seta r_farplane_nofog" set to 1. Can I not identify them and boot them? (I know someone can do it... just can't find the quote again.


Also forcing teams?????

I have read the MaM stuff and the documention is broken and sparodic at best. (not very clear)

You should first try and give an idea of exactly what it does. I have read through the whole lot and find the docs... more than useless.

Cheers

[Buzz_Litebeer]

Hmm, on the honesty stuff, its rather hard to explain

no matter how many times you set

r_farplane_nofog 0

it wont change to 0, if it does change to 0, then the person is cheating.

How to best explain.

r_farplane, and the other variables are "cheat" protected, IE once they are set in the newconfig.cfg, there is absoluetly no way to change them

So lets say you are a cheater, and you set the variable at the beggining in a config file, now you go online and someone tells you to change

r_farplane etc etc to 0, it simply will not happen.

the other thing that happens, is people that want to cheat actually hack their game, and hack their variables, they go in, and they make it so

r_farplane_nofog is now the variable
r_f4rplane_nofog

so now when you send r_farplane_nofog it can be set to 0, because until then the variable, as far as the game was concerned, didnt exist.

so how do we get around that you ask?

well since r_farplane_nofog no longer exists, (because they hacked it) you can now send any arbitrary value to it.

So what we do in the security package is send the value "hacked"
which is a rather arbitrary value.

Now that "hacked" has been set, when you do a dumpuser on that plyaer

r_farplane_nofog will be the value "hacked'
which means that the player has changed the default value for r_farplane_nofog, and the ONLY reason ANYONE would EVER change the default r_farplane_nofog is to cheat, period.

so, thats how we catch the soft hacks, the little stupid no fog crap.

Dont worry if you dont understand it now, i had to be walked through it myself when initially writing the original PJGAdminMod forcesecurity stuff.

And yes, if you look at the original implementations of PJGforcesecurity you will see i set things to 0, but it was wrong.

Now why is TRYing to set to 0 only helping cheaters you ask?

well since an actual cheater that has ahacked EXE with r_f4rplane_nofog instead of r_farplane_nofog is running around, if you set r_farplane_nofog, it WILL in FACT switch it to 0, this causes a problem, since all the scanning algos will look at it and say "hey that guy has it set to 0 he is ok" and thats how setting it to 0 only helps players that are actually cheating.

It is why we stuff "hacked' in instead "0" because stuffing 0 IS useless to stop cheating, and enforces nothing anyway.

Even the newbys at cheating that set the actual r_farplane_nofog var to 1 in there configs, and dont know how to hack, wont get thier vars changed, they will still stay 1, because once it is set, its set forever until they restart their machine.

I hope that helps explain it some bit.

[Rimmel]

Its does explain it... although I already knew.........

You are missing the point.. I just want something to pick up whether they have fog 1 or have hacked it.. then kick em..... hence forcing them not to cheat..... I dont want to actually forve the var back to 0. but if they are cheating... kick them...

Just found delator.... does it nicely :) thanks

PS you ought to look at the delator help file. Thats how to write a support/help document... keep up the good work though.

[Hammer]

Hi Rimmel,

Thanks for taking the time to comment. We will be creating a "better" document in the near future. We have been focusing on getting the features into the mod that we thought folks needed/wanted as well as required for MOHAACI. Unfortunately, with just the two of us doing all the coding for the mod, and IN OUR SPARE TIME :rolleyes: , very little was left to do a complete document before the release. We wanted to start sharing our work and possibly have other developers/admins become interested in this and help out with additional features.

Again thank for taking a look and hopy you good luck working with Delator.

--[MC] Hammer

[Rimmel]

Hi Hammer, thanks for the reply and information.

Lite_Beer said:

"well since r_farplane_nofog no longer exists, (because they hacked it) you can now send any arbitrary value to it."

How do I send a value to the client var from the server??? e.g. the farplane_nofog var?


The reason I ask is that I have knocked up an autokick cheat detector over the last couple of days (Im a developer by profession) because that delator crashes every 2 mins.

I have:
Server messaging (timed)
auto kick ping/rate/name/pre - banned
logging
banning history (so you dont lose bans after restart of prog)
skin detection
game vars (but not the bit mentioned above)
etc

MC hammer said:
"We wanted to start sharing our work and possibly have other developers/admins become interested in this and help out with additional features. "

I'd be interested in helping you, but I've not really done much with the MOHAA scripting, more of an applications developer myself.

The project I have done is in .NET


Regards
Rimmel

[82ndCol_GI_JOE]

by opening the source code you have effectively let those who cheat find away to cheat this program too.... thats really too bad... looked like it might be a useful tool

[Rimmel]

to: GI joe

eh?? source code???? they are all pack files that can be viewed by anyone at any time............... theres no actually application.... for the MaM stuff


Are you thinking of the right thing?

[Hammer]

How do I send a value to the client var from the server??? e.g. the farplane_nofog var?

Easiest way is to use the client_forcehonesty command in MAM_Security (it already sets most of the vars that cause problems). If you want to do a one time set, however, you can use the con command (part of MAM_cmds). It would look something like: command "con setu r_farplane_nofog 0".

The reason I ask is that I have knocked up an autokick cheat detector over the last couple of days (Im a developer by profession) because that delator crashes every 2 mins.

This is great! Perhaps you can join the MOHAACI team and help in their development efforts. Check out the the CI thread elsewhere in this forum; they also have a mailing list at mohaaci@yahoogroups.com

by opening the source code you have effectively let those who cheat find away to cheat this program too.... thats really too bad... looked like it might be a useful tool

Unfortunately, this type of mod uses text-interpreted scripts. There's no way to prevent someone from viewing its content. Also, there's really nothing in these files that hasn't already been documented in any cheat/anti-cheat site. It does, however, contain some useful utilities that other mod developers can use within their own scripts.

--[MC] Hammer

[Rimmel]

MC hammer said:

"It would look something like: command "con setu r_farplane_nofog 0""

what is the actually rcon commend.... not used through your util?

"rcon setu r_farplane_nofog 0" ????????

cheers
Rimmel™

[Hammer]

rcon setu blah blah blah ... would set the value of the cvar on the server itself. There's no direct way to set client's cvars without a special mods like MoH_AdminMod. Just add rcon in front of command in my previous post. If you're on a Spearhead server, you will have to escape the spaces in the commmand so SH won't strip them when you rcon, it would look like: rcon command "con setu\sr_farplane_nofog\s0". The \s will be replaced by a single space (see the MAM install doc for more info on escape characters). This will also work in classic MoH:AA.

--[MC] Hammer

Edited -- was missing the word con before setu ... :oops:

[Rimmel]

right... I see... thanks

[Buzz_Litebeer]

Hammer is completely right, there is no way to do almost anything of the nature we have done via the console. MoHAdminMod uses the same basic tenate of how PJGAdminMod, but instead of making 20 different vars that do different actions, it now has 1 var that does 20 different actions.

MohAdminMod allows you to write an interface to the scripting level of the game, IE how maps run themselves, how the game loads models etc.

So thats what we have done, we have made it so that it is now "easy" for anyone with a little programming experience, to get in and do anything that can be done by script level.

MohAdminMod is an INTERFACE with the scripting language, all the commands that can be used by typing

rcon command "<commands ehre>"

are being sent to an interperter that decides what script level stuff to run.

MAM_Defaultcommands.scr is our basic interface to the scripting language, and MAM_Security.scr is the basic security level stuff we have added to MAM.

the reason we have to use \s for Spearhead is becasue of a bug in spearhead that wont allow you to set vars with spaces in them properly.

so

rcon command "switch_axis 1 3 5" in MOHAA is the same as

rcon command "switch_axis\s1\s3\s5" in spearhead.

Thats why an interface tool such as MoHaaCI is so nice because it can automate that kind of thing.

If you want to write a tool , we encourage you, and hope you do. And we also hope you get in touch with the mohaaCi group, since they have been set on detecting hacks.

The hack detection involving the cvars is just one small level, there is a lot more going on, MohAdminMods security package merely makes it an easier interface for it to set the variables on the client end.

Also, the delator .pk3 file does the same kind of var setting that PJGAdminMod did, MohAdminMod does a much more thorough job of it, and implements it better.


Anyway hope that helps you some, but we would like you to realize, that setting those variables to attempt to detect has been looked into, and is exactly what we have set out to do in mohAdminMod, and we have also provided a way for other developers to add their own implementations of honesty enforcement, in a new addon pack im creating for example it re-writes the client_forcehonesty command.

We hope you find it to your satisfaction, the documentation may not be quite up to snuff, but we were a little pressed for time.

PJGAdminMod was causing some havoc in how unstable it could make servers, and blackbart really wanted us to release this version to be compatible with his new ver of CI.

anyway buzz out

[Rimmel]

Unfortunately our server just closes down when you start it with the MaM stuff installed :(

Been trying to get a grip with you docs as well :(

e.g. Security.... whats does it do? its says forces honesty on a client.... but whats that? does it make them not go shoplifting? I can see in the example it says forces swapping teams....?? how is that forcing honesty?

To someone who has never seen it before, the MaM stuff is very promising.... but ultimately if no one knows how to use it....

You need as a starter a reference of "all" commands that the MaM has included and a description of what exactly they do.

Is there any other documentation you can send?

Actually I all want to use from the MaM admin mod is..... checking that client arent using the farplane... nofog .. novis etc cheats.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
another example:

"What This Mod Does:
This mod provides an ogl checking command to verify ogl settings. "

What is OGL ? is it Open GL? ........... or some other acronym? What settings does it check? Why?

These are questions anyone writing an Admin module needs to know... as they may want to use them (or not)

Sorry if I sound like I'm ripping you... I'm not meaning to.... I am just trying to give some constructive critisism. Its obvious that the guys that you are working with to write the admin mod know all the commands.... but guys who have never seen it, may miss some of your cool features, just because they are not documented very well.

I know you rushed it out.... and understand that... so.... when can you write some additional documentation? :)

Rimmel™

or can you email me direct so i can ask questions?

or I am on IRC
Server: quakenet
Channel: #BoB-Mohaa
type !rimmel to page me

rimmel@rimmersoft.co.uk

[Buzz_Litebeer]

yea rimmel, there is a new patch, you have to make sure that the server.cfg has the right exec line in it

exec mohadminmod.cfg

has to be somewhere toward teh end of the server.cfg

the ogl check file is for people in the ogl league, it was removed from the base packages, and the documentation wasnt upgraded to reflect that.


the defaultcmds.doc and the MAM_security.doc have a list of every command available to them, right after the installation notes area, and it has an example of what every command does. I also wrote a small little thread

http://www.mohadmin.com/nuke/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1147

that gives an example, if you had read the main documentation on page 5 it gives tells the following command to list all registered commands with MAM..

the command

cmdlist

how you would type it is, at console

rcon status

this will give you your client id (the same you would use when using clientkick)

then you type

rcon command "<yourclientid> cmdlist"

and (which according to page 5) would give you a list of all registered commands within MohAdminMod.

lets say you wanted to find out what registered files there were?

you could type

rcon command "<yourclientid> modfiles"

and this would return the list of mod files that you have registered with the program, thsi can be anything from default mam modules, to dmzdogtagz.

to help you out more with some of the documentation.

on page 2 of the defaultcomands documentation (or page 1 if you ignore the title page) it tells you what all the cvars mean for the initial configuration of MAM.

on page 3 and 4 there is a complete list of all the command that are available in default commands module.

there is similar documenation in the security documentation for the program.


now you may have a bur about why we dont provide it all in one "master" list, this is because MAM is actually just a command line interperter, all the commands provided other than the defautl commands

cmdlist
modlist
and con

are provided externally in seperate packages.

MAM_Security is a seperate module that is registered wtih MAM, we provide it as a default package so that people can get the features that they need, and to provide MOHAACI compatibility right out of the start gate.

MAM_Defaultcommands is also provided so that it is compatible with MOHAACI, IE both provide complete compatibility with the best external anti cheat program currently available, annd this makes it so install can be "less" of a hassle.



and on the note about wanting it to only check for those cheats, you cannot do that with an internal script file, the internal script file DOES allow other programs too.

IE ALLOWS. if you take delator for example, it has to run its own script file to to detect cheats, if you run it without its script file, it still trys but has no empirical way to do it, CI was the same way, what the script allows is for CI to have a good solid method of testing players vars for cheats.

I hope my description of the documentation will help you navigate it better.

in case you missed it here is the patched ver of mohaaadmin mod

http://www.mohadmin.com/nuke/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1097

[Rimmel]

I dont suppose you could email it me??? please

The download area "filefront" is full :(

rimmel@rimmersoft.co.uk

[Rimmel]

Hi, getting to grips with the mam admin mod :)

Bit of a bug I think though....... sometimes when the maps rotates (goes to next map) the mod stops working....... do i need to type a command to start it on every map???????????????

couple of questions...

Is there a way of telling which team (in a team match) a player is on?

Also, I see as an example bit of code you use "switch_name"....

is there a command to change players names on the server? This would get around the dumpuser bug (that doesnt allow spaces). I could simply change their name..... do a dumpuser then change it back.....

I'm most interested in the "switch_name" command. If it isnt in MaM does anyone know how to add it? (Im an Applications dev... not gone into MOHAA scripting)

Thanks

Rimmel™

ps ..... dids a dumpuser on someone and got this
--------------------------------------------------------------
dumpuser XXXX
userinfo
--------
cheats : 0
name : XXXX
dm_playermodel : allied_british_6th_airborne_captain
rate : 25000
snaps : 20
dm_playergermanmodel : german_wehrmacht_soldier
r_fullbright : 0
r_lightmap : 0
r_showSmp : 0
r_novis : 0
r_lockpvs : 0
r_farplane : 0
r_farplane_nocull : 0
r_farplane_nofog : 0
cg_3rd_person : 0
cg_acidtrip : 0
PJG_random_number : 279
PJGAliasCheck : 279
-----------------------------------------------------

What are the last 2 entries? PJG... ??? and what exactly do they do?

Thanks again

[Buzz_Litebeer]

im suprised i forgot to remove my PJG stuff from it, but basically it make susre that we vars can be set, and it checks your alias.

it make ssure your koschure and havnet had any weird alterations made to your game.

[Rimmel]

Ok how does that work? if they are there and the same then its OK?

What about the rest of my previous post... any ideas on those other questions?
Cheers
Rimmel™

[Buzz_Litebeer]

its acutally tied in with enforces screenshots for match play, if someone has been clever they can re-name the screenshot, and alias the actual comand screenshot to something else, sort of like a panic buttton to make sure they dont get caught cheating.

so what we do when we make them take a screenshot is we attempt to re-alias the screenshot command. if we can we know thye are cheating cause it pops a messaag eup.

the wway to get around that would be to re-alias screenshot, and make it do something else, so what we have done is made it so it checks alias to be assured that it itself hasnt been hacked.

[MOMMA]

I understand what your saying Rimmel and feel your pain. It has been my experience that while the authors are getting a lot better at working together, pooling their talents, to create great mods for us, the documentation is written in a way that assumes a certain level of knowledge (that I apparently do not posses) to understand it, therfore I end up asking a lot of quetions to get it working. Terms such as "alias", "farplane" "force honesty""force models vs forced skins" etc are used assuming everyone can interpret their meaning. Some do, I do now, to a certain extent, bu many who would like to use the tools do not.

This is not a slam by any means to the authors, I think they are doing a bang up job. I just don't think it is a priority to make sure the documentation is concise but understandable by a wide audience. This is probably the one thing I would change if I could. (I also think more would use them if that were the case)

Luckily, I continue to ask enough questions that I am able to get it working. I use Counter Intelligence in conjunction with MAM. CI works well with MAM and allows me to see visually what is going on and control various aspects of the server. Then things such as forced screenshots, changing someones name, etc can be done with the click of the mouse.

[Buzz_Litebeer]

The issues with how security are implemented ARE complicated, and I mean that in its most complicated sense ;-)

It took me a while, even after i first tried to implement force security, to understand why putting "hacked" in instead of "0" was a much "better" idea, and I already knew what was going on in the background.

I will tell you the truth, the only way I found out what each of the secuiryt vars, such as r_farplane_nocull etc do, was to sit down, and look at a huge accumulation of screenshots done by Blackbart and the MOHAACI dev crew to see why it was important that you dont have these functiosn st to 0, and what kind of advantage they give.

MOHAACI itself actually gives a very good description of these options in its documentation (somewhere) though not screeenshots (which i have access to)

but it really comes down to trust, all the variables that are checked are recongized as cheat vars by EA games, we know this because when you try to check them they say "cheat protected"

the reason we try to set them, is to force those values into the dumpuser, why is this important? well once in dumpuser they can be verified by outside sources, such as MOHAACI. MAM itself doesnt actually do any kind of checking, it requires that programs such as delator, and mohaaCI are running and making sure that the players dumpusers are correct.

Buzz OUT

[Rimmel]

Thanks eff momma.. knew someone else would understand :)

Buzz:
does the MaM program try these values every 60 seconds (as in the security file?)

I have 99% of what I want working..... I would REALLY like to be able to rename players though.... I can see the command in mam security... but cant get it to work...

also do you have a list of characters that the dumpuser command doesnt like?............




Thanks
Rim

[Buzz_Litebeer]

according to page 2 of the MOHAACI documents, to get something to echo back you type

command "<youradminid> <command> <clientid>"

[Rimmel]

got that one.... :)

Cant get the switch name working though...............

[Buzz_Litebeer]

if your using mohaaCi to switch the names you need to turn it on, it is off by default in the options

to switch a name you can type

command "switch_name \qMyNewName\q <clientid>"

[Rimmel]

I am not using "mohaaCi", I have written my own app.

But still cant get it working. How do you turn it on?

Im testing on spearhead, have tried:

command "switch_name\s\qNewName\s4\q"
command "switch_name\s\qNewName\q\s4"
command "switch_name\s\qNewName\q\s\q4\q"

command "switch_name \qNewName 4\q"
command "switch_name \qNewName\q 4"
command "switch_name \qNewName\q \q4\q"

MaM security is enable....
How do you turn the command on?

Thanks

[Hammer]

I was just looking through the code and the args in switch_name are backwards (Buzz?) ... It looks like it should be:

command "[<statnum> ]switch_name <playerid> <new_name>"

--[MC] Hammer

[Rimmel]

Thanks Hammer!!!!!! thats it!!!

Brill.... will you changing it to the MaM standard format in the next release???

Just so i know to leave a note in my code to change it....

Thanks again!

PS Now that I understand what the stuff does its great!!!

[Buzz_Litebeer]

your right hammer my bad ;-(

i did have it backward


i actually did this on purpose, so that you could only switch one player at a time.

because if you did something like

switch_name \q name here\q all"

CI would kick all but one person shortly thereafter, and thats a bad thing.

[MOMMA]

command "[<statnum> ]switch_name <playerid> <new_name>"

--[MC] Hammer

What's statnum? Can you provide an example of a line as it should be?

[Rimmel]

Statnum is the rcon console you type the command from.. it will echo a reply to that console.. (in game)
So say if you are Client No 3

and you type rcon command "3\sswitch_name\s5\s\qHelen\q"

Player 5 will have his name to player 5 will have their name changed to helen, and player 3 (the one who rcon'd it will get a reply from the command)

I think thats right..... (In Spearhead format)

[Hammer]

Also check the Getting Started posts in the MAM section. :D

--[MC] Hammer



command "[<statnum> ]switch_name <playerid> <new_name>"


What's statnum? Can you provide an example of a line as it should be?