FPS Community Manifesto

[triggerpappy]

Many of us in the FPS Community met last week and took the work that Rudedog started way back in 2001 (http://www.fpsadmin.com/index.php?page=devguide) and updated his list to the things that we think are essential for the FPS Community today.

We are meeting with many of the publishers at E3 and presenting this list and getting their feedback.

If you agree with these items and our cause please post your personal and/or clan info on the original article (http://www.fragworld.org/frag/news/opinion-editorials/first-person-shooter-manifesto.html) There are more details on how/why this list was created there and a recording of the meeting.

The more people they see behind this the more likely we are for them to incorporate these things. Please help spread the word and repost in forums and elsewhere.

Thanks

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________

These are the ESSENTIAL things we HAVE to have in a FPS Shooter


Dedicated Servers - for performance and countless other reasons. Co-op game modes and games should also have dedicated servers
Mod Tools - This will save you development costs by giving your customers new content and no cost to you and give you great ideas for the next version of your game. Whatever you can't put in the game we can put it in for you. Just give us the tools please.
As much server side control and options available (the ability to control maps, gametypes, weapons, special abilities, filter language, kick hackers etc). For private matches in particular it is important to have features either built into the game or via 3rd party mods to ensure a level playing field for all players and the ability to create different rulesets.
LAN Capability - So people at Lan Parties, Tournaments, College Dorms, Gaming Centers and their friends houses can enjoy face to face competition without requiring each PC to have internet capability
Stat Tracking - API, Log file or do it yourself we need to be able to see how we and others are doing.
A Capable Server Browser that shows all the options mentioned in #4 filterable by ping, server location, gametype, map and whose data can refresh in real time.
A Section in the Game's Official Forums for verified server owners so they may have constructive dialogue with each other and with the game developer.
In Game Recording - Machinima, Commentaries, Frag Videos, Tutorials, and other Video Broadcasting is free advertising and marketing of your game. It helps us run cheat free events the promote your product. Having a capable spectate mode also facilitates this as well.
Anti-Cheat - Definitely have a strong Anti-Cheat out of the box and work with the community and Anti Cheat Companies in staying up to date with the latest Anti-Cheating Methods such as the ability to force settings in private matches and detect adjustments to exe files
Allow Config files to be editable in game via console or interface

These are SUGGESTIONS we have to make a great FPS Game


Map Editor - Creates content for your customers and no development cost to you.
Front End Administration of Servers - A pulldown that allows you to kick and perform server admin functions while in game.
Server Side Demo Recording
Stat Tracking by Server
The ability for server admins to flag suspicious players which instructs the server to record/screenshot them or conduct extra anticheat detection on them.
Social Networking integration - See achievements, stats etc on facebook or web widgets/API so communities can post on their websites
Clan level achievements/leveling/features similar to what guilds have in MMOs
Invisible spectating in "public" servers for server admins
Special Beginner Servers for people new to the game
The ability to assign a trackable skill level to a player (ELO) and see the average skill level of the players in a server via the server browser
A Tutorial on how to use the server browser
To expand #3 in essentials we desire certain features for fair competitive play

The ability for all players to start at the same time
The ability to see a clear end of game scoreboard and leaderboard with stats and score at the end of each round and match
The ability to limit and control weapons and special abilities (this allows for exclusion of undesirable weapons and abilities and allows for sniper only or infantry only type gameplay)


Spectating/Broadcasting - In addition to in game demo recording allow for free and follow spectating to promote the game via live broadcasting and commentary which can be done via shoutcast, ustream , Justin TV etc..)

TriggerPappy

[Preacher]

Special Beginner Servers for people new to the game

Thats what a Tutorial is for

Who had this idea lol
Were lucky to get Dedicated servers these days and to ask for this makes you think if its a joke lol

[MaydaX]

Dedicated Servers - for performance and countless other reasons. Co-op game modes and games should also have dedicated servers

Add to that public server files. Just noticed there a server crash exploit for BF2/BF2142, there is a manual patch if you have access to the server exe files but with the files locked down (ranked) you have to rely on the developer to fix it. In the case of 2142, it's been known for over a year and the 1.5 patch for bf2 didn't fully fix it.

http://aluigi.altervista.org/patches/bfloopfix.lpatch
http://aluigi.freeforums.org/battlefield-2-crash-t927.html

[Misnomer]

Add to that public server files. Just noticed there a server crash exploit for BF2/BF2142, there is a manual patch if you have access to the server exe files but with the files locked down (ranked) you have to rely on the developer to fix it. In the case of 2142, it's been known for over a year and the 1.5 patch for bf2 didn't fully fix it.

http://aluigi.altervista.org/patches/bfloopfix.lpatch
http://aluigi.freeforums.org/battlefield-2-crash-t927.html

The ultimatum doesn't ask for patching, frequent or otherwise. No after retail support demanded either. So I guess you are counting on the community to patch then? Bohemia Interactive model of game production for all? Why bother releasing a game that works, the community will fix it. Even apart from that issue, the demand for public server files is an interesting one and I don't think I agree with it. It is nice for some people, but ESSENTIAL is too much. The PC community can exist just fine in a game without public files for the dedicated servers. BF2, BF2142, and BC2 prove that we can exist in it even better than we do in many games with public files just in terms of population numbers, clans, and community. Plus, #7 would be hard to do with public files.

A Section in the Game's Official Forums for verified server owners so they may have constructive dialogue with each other and with the game developer.

Given that qualifiaction, piratical server owners or those who run hacked or no-cd key servers would have more access to developers than the average paying player. Oh, and would you demand Linux files too?

I would also like clarification on point 2 before I sign anything myself or for my clan.


Mod Tools - This will save you development costs by giving your customers new content and no cost to you and give you great ideas for the next version of your game. Whatever you can't put in the game we can put it in for you. Just give us the tools please.

What do mod tools actually consist of in this statement? Modders will tell you there is a world of difference between what you can do in L4D 1&2 and the full Hammer suite. I assume that because you listed a map editor as separate you don't require this in the "mod tools"?

Also no http:\\ redirect required? I take it without a required map editor you are willing to go the route of SP games like Oblivion and just have third party sites host the mods? So this is basically full conversions only? An interesting demand considering that script mods are more likely to be played than any larger downloads and those scripts likely won't be played as much if it is a third party download site required. This is fine with me, but I doubt many of the mod tool people here will agree to this arrangement of the demand.

You might want to clean up the justification sentence too. Mod tools take money to develop. Maybe not as much if you are using the Unreal Engine, but it takes someone some time to prepare them for release and make sure all the legal entanglements are in order. If the tools are internal only, it takes a team to turn them into a consumer ready product with the documentation to explain it. In the real world, man power requires money and skilled people require more compensation for their time. Modders may work for free, but the people who make their tools have families to feed based on the labor they put into the tools. For them it is not a hobby, it is a job.

Plus, as far as I know there is no evidence to say that a developer ever makes back what they spent to create mod tools. There is certainly limited evidence both ways to show that multiplayer-games sell fine without mod tools and that only game with mod tools are played beyond a short term retail window. With the advent of Steam sales and the change in the fps game density in the market, I would think there are a lot of numbers to be crunched before you can claim mod tools help profitability...long term or short term.


Allow Config files to be editable in game via console or interface

I'm going to assume this is about developer's console. In which case it is never "essential" that you be able to set your FOV, brightness, or screen resolution in-game beyond using an options menu. Quite often an engine will need to reset to even change something like AA or audio acceleration. This sounds to me like the people constantly crying for tweaks that they can use ingame based on their situations for upping FPS, using keybinds, or countless other annoying things that could be done in the CFG or menus out-of-game....if they are legit. Otherwise they are mostly things like scrollwheel binding to trigger that is not technically a cheat, but should be.

Now if you need to use the console for things not in the config, like to start recording for matches....that I can understand. Would be nice to have it in the GUI, but it is a higher level function that is not really able to be abused to the same level if it is in the dev console. So, ask for the developer console if you want, but don't tie it to the config because there is little to no reason for it to be tied to the config. Personally, I would much rather have the GUI elements to do everything PC users need done. But if you want developer's console or GUI for enabling features necessary for proper functionality on PC....say that and list them. If you are too lazy to list exactly what is needed, I can't see why they are going to work to fill in the blanks in your ultimatum.

It is an okay list, but a tad naive and entitled sounding. Plus, I am not sure we are in a position to make demands (see MW2 and L4D2 boycotts for limitation of the power of the community and MW2 for success without meeting any of the demands listed). We cannot actually guarantee enough purchases to make a game profitable if they do meet our demands. The best boycotts in history worked because the demographic which a business relied on most heavily demanded changes for their business to remain. If we walk, the games are still profitable and they have less headaches...we have no bargaining position here.

[triggerpappy]

Special Beginner Servers for people new to the game

Thats what a Tutorial is for


Tutorials does not help people new to multiplayer. That why we made this suggestion. Developers have mentioned that multiplayer games get taken over by the 'elitist' players. We wanted the ability for people to play with people of like skill level if they choose to.

Misnomer I replied to your post in our forums (http://www.fragworld.org/frag/fragforums/fps-manifesto-feedback/feedback.html#207)

Basically I suggest you listen to the recording of our meeting to understand more.

The Developers we are meeting with this week are asking for 2 things:

1)For our community to agree on what is important
2)To show how many people actually want these things.

They asked us not to get too specific on individual features.

So we are focusing on presenting to them these 2 things. We are just trying our best to accomplish this.

[Misnomer]

Tutorials does not help people new to multiplayer. That why we made this suggestion. Developers have mentioned that multiplayer games get taken over by the 'elitist' players. We wanted the ability for people to play with people of like skill level if they choose to.

Misnomer I replied to your post in our forums (http://www.fragworld.org/frag/fragforums/fps-manifesto-feedback/feedback.html#207)

Basically I suggest you listen to the recording of our meeting to understand more.

The Developers we are meeting with this week are asking for 2 things:

1)For our community to agree on what is important
2)To show how many people actually want these things.

They asked us not to get too specific on individual features.

So we are focusing on presenting to them these 2 things. We are just trying our best to accomplish this.

Intents are nice, but unfortunately I think if you listen to the modders present here even simply separating map tools from what is "essential" will divide who supports you. You need numbers and to stay "general", but you also need to understand the community and that if you don't show up with very specific things they can do for us....they won't do any. You will just get promises for "more PC support." Whatever that means. General in this case means you should not make it about just one game, but it needs to be specific enough that it is something that a developer can solidly look into the feasibility and cost of implementing.

That audiolog sounds like a couple fans tossing around ideas about what would make games better (no offense, I love those conversations), but they are not speaking as community leaders who have specific needs to make the game work for the members they represent. Go to the developers with a specific need, like Field of View slider needs to available in GUI menus for all PC games now with widescreens being common but not uniform, or map building tools with infrastructure to make those maps shareable, or competition settings (with an explanation of what those are like you have)....those might get responses. But even that specific it may be something they can't comment on until the game is ready for release.

Also, start a Steam Group and advertise like crazy. Get Rock Paper Shotgun to get you a shoutout if you can. Look at the feedback and you will find just how little this captures the level of support you will need for the developers to see you as more than just another minority of the PC community.

[triggerpappy]

Well hopefully we will get more input and support from modders and leaders here and other places. We plan on having another meeting after E3.
You are right it is hard to get the PC FPS community to all agree on a list and the developers do see us as a very fragmented community.

Thanks for your feedback.

[romeozor]

Well I'm against enabling any in-game console. The less the script kiddies can fiddle around with the game the better.
Also I don't see how you would convince a developer to include mod tools with the argument "we can do things for you". There's no money in it for them if modders give stuff away for free.
Stat tracking essential? I don't think so.
I don't see how the TSP forum thing is anything relevant. If a server provider gets a "trusted" status I believe they are educated enough to make reasonable claims in the contract, like they want an open channel for feedback and demand fixes if a release is broken and causes them problems to maintain QOS. If not, they shouldn't be trusted in the first place.

[MaydaX]

The PC community can exist just fine in a game without public files for the dedicated servers. BF2, BF2142, and BC2 prove that we can exist in it even better than we do in many games with public files just in terms of population numbers, clans, and community. Plus, #7 would be hard to do with public files.

Can't say BF2 and BF2142 is doing fine without public server files when it has unranked ones. Looking at game-monitor there is a large percentage running unranked and with mods. With that aditude they will never be #1 when the #1 game offers features like public dedicated server files etc.

Well I'm against enabling any in-game console. The less the script kiddies can fiddle around with the game the better.

Scripting is not caused by having a console but from having a scripts engine. It's a input/output interface nothing more. You enter commands into it and it gives a response. I'm tired of people being brainwashed by developers to think the console is a bad thing and must be removed. But it's ok cause a lack of scripts can be replaced with macro software which has the ability to do more damage than scripts in a game.Try going in a BC2 server and display a pb player list on your screen in game .. oh wait you can't.

Sorry for the rant but it seems the features that make PC gaming better than consoles are slowing being removed yet more people are accepting it because they believe or led to believe it's for the best. MW2 is where it's headed, IW just took out too much at once and people noticed.

[Mike Nomad]

.... <snip> .... the features that make PC gaming better than consoles are slowing being removed yet more people are accepting it because they believe or led to believe it's for the best. MW2 is where it's headed, IW just took out too much at once and people noticed.


Now, that's what I call saying it like it is!! I agree 100%. :salute:

[MrBrown]

Scripting is not caused by having a console but from having a scripts engine. It's a input interface nothing more. I'm tired of people being brainwashed by developers to think the console is a bad thing and must be removed. But it's ok cause a lack of scripts can be replaced with macro software which has the ability to do more damage than scripts in a game.Try going in a BC2 server and display a pb player list on your screen in game .. oh wait you can't.Wasn't it planned by PB that you can just type "/pb_plist" in the chat? Even if that wasn't implemented yet - as long as you say the console is just an input interface, using the chat with a prefix like "/" seems perfectly fine to me.

For me, a console is only really useful if it's a "full blown" console with scripting (like in the Source engine), and not just an input interface (like in Battlefield 2 for example). Everything I can do in the BF2 console could be easily mapped to the chat system. A full blown scripting system with autoexec.cfg etc. like in the Source engine is different, it has it's own benefits - but it can also be exploited by script kiddies as others have pointed out.

[MaydaX]

Wasn't it planned by PB that you can just type "/pb_plist" in the chat? Even if that wasn't implemented yet - as long as you say the console is just an input interface, using the chat with a prefix like "/" seems perfectly fine to me.

The typical console is actually an input/output interface. You enter commands in and it should give a response. You can type PB commands in chat now with the / prefix but the results are not displayed anywhere in the game. You have to enable client logs to see any results which means you have to minimize to desktop and open a text file.

I don't know when some people started playing games but I have been playing since half-life one. I have played many games which had a console since then. Even cheaper games have it now. The Serious 3 engine which the new HD remakes of Serious Sam has a console.

[Misnomer]

Can't say BF2 and BF2142 is doing fine without public server files when it has unranked ones. Looking at game-monitor there is a large percentage running unranked and with mods. With that aditude they will never be #1 when the #1 game offers features like public dedicated server files etc.

#1 is MW2 still, on occasion it is CS:S, but saying that to be #1 you have to have public dedicated servers is incorrect. The percentage of unranked for BF2 and 2142 has increased largely due to the age of the games and overall shrinking of the community at large. It is still far easier to find a ranked game than an unranked one in either game. On game-monitor when I checked there were 55 games of anything modded (though couldn't check purely unranked) that had people playing at all. 420 Ranked servers has people people playing. 13% were playing a mod on a game that is 6 years old. Or perhaps it is better to say that 87% of those playing a 6 year old game are still playing ranked instead of a mod.

If you are willing to believe http://bfbcs.com/. BC2 has 17,000 servers. On game monitor, TF2...a game with everything on the list....has only 4,000. Now even if you don't trust those. If you go to gametracker (http://www.gametracker.com/games/) (click on the name of each game and look at the right side), which only tracks those who sign their servers up for the tracking, BC2 is around 7,000 and TF2 is around 2,000. COD5 is around 1,000 and COD4 is around 8,000. The level of developers meeting the requirements of PC gamers is nearly unrelated to the overall success of the game...even simply among those of us who run servers!

Scripting is not caused by having a console but from having a scripts engine. It's a input interface nothing more. I'm tired of people being brainwashed by developers to think the console is a bad thing and must be removed. But it's ok cause a lack of scripts can be replaced with macro software which has the ability to do more damage than scripts in a game.Try going in a BC2 server and display a pb player list on your screen in game .. oh wait you can't.

You are right about it not destroying scripting in any way, but you know as well as I do that most of the people using the dev console out of the competitive scene were tweakers. The fact that there is a perception among PC gamers that they are always at a disadvantage compared to tweakers and scripters is another reason people are headed to consoles.

Perhaps the list of demands should ask for less loose cvars in the statement asking for more dvars. Dev console to ask for pb_list, to turn on recording...fine, if that can't be put in gui easily and is actually needed. But the general population of PC gamers do not want to be out scripted or out tweaked.

We should demand that game makers work harder with VAC or PB from the start of their games to lock down cvars and dvars that could be used for even mild cheating.

Sorry for the rant but it seems the features that make PC gaming better than consoles are slowing being removed yet more people are accepting it because they believe or led to believe it's for the best. MW2 is where it's headed, IW just took out too much at once and people noticed.

I simply don't believe that all of the "features" are what made it better. The developers have many fair points about accessibility and the community has fair points about capability and suitability.

Now the competition community on PC may never get past CS:S, but that is the most competed game on PC to this day. There is no PB list function in that game, they handle anti-cheat completely differently. Different games will do things different ways. As long as they do not prevent the community from functioning (MW2 with its lack of dedis, or BC2 with its current lack of variables needed for competition), we can adapt and make them suite our purposes. We don't need Quake capabilities to make it work....that is just what we know how to use easiest.

I am personally sick of PC gamers telling me that the Quake engine and its followers were the best multiplayer gaming PC has ever had and that it was entirely because of these "features." Gaming is changing and more people are playing MP games now than ever before. There are a very large number of PC gamers who have never played games with Quake features and are:

1. Having fun.
2. Part of a community.
3. Competing.
4. Planning on buying the next title in a series regardless of whether or not it has those features.

[MaydaX]

#1 is MW2 still, on occasion it is CS:S, but saying that to be #1 you have to have public dedicated servers is incorrect.

It's #1 now but lets see how long that lasts. Won't be the 6 years that CS was #1. I'd be surprised if it lasts for more than a year. Games like MW2, BC2 are not created to last for any length of time but to last until the next title release. The term "more for less" is often used in ads for various products while in the gaming industry it's more like "less for more" with each new game.


If you are willing to believe http://bfbcs.com/. BC2 has 17,000 servers. On game monitor, TF2...a game with everything on the list....has only 4,000. Now even if you don't trust those. If you go to gametracker (http://www.gametracker.com/games/) (click on the name of each game and look at the right side), which only tracks those who sign their servers up for the tracking, BC2 is around 7,000 and TF2 is around 2,000. COD5 is around 1,000 and COD4 is around 8,000. The level of developers meeting the requirements of PC gamers is nearly unrelated to the overall success of the game...even simply among those of us who run servers!

And if you blindly grab the first stats you see then you need to look again. BFBCS is off by a lot. The real stats are shown on BC2Tracker (http://battletracker.com/index.php?page=BC2TrackerStats).

BC2 Stats for Platform: PC
-- Total Servers = 9,057
-- Populated Servers = 1,359
-- Players Online = 22,729
-- Total Slots = 206,021
-- Populated Percentage = 15.0%
-- Slot Usage Percentage = 11.0%My data is directly from the ea master server which is fairly close to BC2Tracker.


I simply don't believe that all of the "features" are what made it better. The developers have many fair points about accessibility and the community has fair points about capability and suitability.

Developers tell people a lot of things but it doesn't mean it's right or better *cough* IWNet *cough*. The goal is to get as many people playing your game as possible. Adding features like a console, public server files, demo recording etc increases the player base as it appeals to a larger variety of people.

I am personally sick of PC gamers telling me that the Quake engine and its followers were the best multiplayer gaming PC has ever had and that it was entirely because of these features.

Usually when you hear something again and again there might be a good reason for it :P

I won't hide the fact that I believe the Q3 engine is one of the best engines created. That is from my experience of actually playing games and not believing the whining of others on various forums around the internet.

[MrBrown]

The typical console is actually an input/output interface. You enter commands in and it should give a response. You can type PB commands in chat now with the / prefix but the results are not displayed anywhere in the game. You have to enable client logs to see any results which means you have to minimize to desktop and open a text file.Ahh yes it goes to the logfile, I remember, a quite nasty solution. But if they'd actually manage to send that output back to the ingame chat, I'd be fine with that. Then the console would just be merged into the chat functionality (chat = input / output interface, basically).

[MaydaX]

Ahh yes it goes to the logfile, I remember, a quite nasty solution. But if they'd actually manage to send that output back to the ingame chat, I'd be fine with that. Then the console would just be merged into the chat functionality (chat = input / output interface, basically).

That's what I want in a console. I don't care about being able to change hundreds of game cvars. I want a basic command console to issue basic commands like: connect, disconnect, reconnect, record, quit, chat, spectate commands (follow etc), and pb commands to name a few. Also to change basic settings that are editable in the config file like fov.

[Misnomer]

And if you blindly grab the first stats you see then you need to look again. BFBCS is off by a lot. The real stats are shown on BC2Tracker (http://battletracker.com/index.php?page=BC2TrackerStats).

My data is directly from the ea master server which is fairly close to BC2Tracker.


Fine, use your site. It currently shows higher usage numbers for BC2 servers than COD4 and COD5. BC2 also has a higher player count overall player count despite having fewer servers. So yes, using this causality logic COD4 has more empty servers because it has mod tools and public server files. COD5 had better support for both in the long run...so it has even less servers and players. COD5 still has more players, but considerably more empty servers than BF2142. This would suggest that public server files and mod tools gets you more empty servers without a proportional increase in population...aka any real benefit to the developer.

Correlation is not helping your case here. CS:S is just becoming an outlier.

Granted this is all taken at off hours on a Monday, I will look again this weekend and write down some more numbers to see if it really changes.

[MaydaX]

So yes, using this causality logic COD4 has more empty servers because it has mod tools and public server files. COD5 had better support for both in the long run...so it has even less servers and players.

Ofc they are more empty because people are playing the newer games like MW2 and BC2. It always happens then once those new games become boring they usually go back to the older ones.

MW2 is a good game BUT lack of dedicated servers etc is what ruined it for the hardcore PC cod fan. I've played MW2 and I liked the gameplay with the exception of a few things like the nuke but the lack of the PC features and laggy P2P was what ruined it for me.

Granted this is all taken at off hours on a Monday, I will look again this weekend and write down some more numbers to see if it really changes.

BC2 total server count won't change because it's the weekend, it has dropped from 10k to 9k in just two weeks. Comparing player counts to server ratios etc across games is a waste of time as it's like comparing apples and oranges.

For the record I support any game that gives me what I want. If IW came out with MW3 and it had all the PC feaures cod4 has I would buy it. If game developers want to remove PC features they are free to do so BUT I won't be giving them any money for the console port that results of it.

[Misnomer]

This thread is not so much what we decide personally as what the PC community should be asking for from developers. This list is being presented to a few at E3. As long as it is only about our personal buying preferences, it really doesn't matter.

[TRTL]

Ofc they are more empty because people are playing the newer games like MW2 and BC2. It always happens then once those new games become boring they usually go back to the older ones.

You are exactly right, people play the newer games. If developers are going to be releasing titles every year, we DON'T need public files or mod tools. No one will be playing mods for a older game when they can play a newer game. Good point. :salute:

[MaydaX]

You are exactly right, people play the newer games. If developers are going to be releasing titles every year, we DON'T need public files or mod tools.

I guess you speak for everyone now? I don't play the newer games for very long if they don't appeal to me, I try it and if it's crap or gets boring I stop playing it. MW2 lasted a few weeks and BC2 lasted about a month and a half for me. Now I'm back to cod4 / css beta among single player games.

No one will be playing mods for a older game when they can play a newer game. Good point. :salute:

If that is the case then I will have no reason to continue my work in the PC community. Guess the hackers will be happy as they have been trying to get rid of PBBans for years.

I will say don't be so quick to accept the console ports developers are trying to push. There are people and groups in the PC community that once they leave you may wish they hadn't.

[TRTL]

I guess you speak for everyone now?
I was just agreeing with what you said.

I'd be surprised if it lasts for more than a year. Games like MW2, BC2 are not created to last for any length of time but to last until the next title release.

That the majority of pc gamers tend to play the newer games instead of mods now. The server stats have proved that as well. That is why it is NOT essential to have public dedicated files or mod tools. If you are talking about what the MAJORITY of the pc community wants.

5+ years ago, that wasn't the case. We all played mods because we didn't get a new game for 2+ years. No disrespect to anyone, but times have changed.

I will say don't be so quick to accept the console ports developers are trying to push. There are people and groups in the PC community that once they leave you may wish they hadn't.
I am personally not accepting all of it. I did not buy/play MW2. Unlike many, I took a stand. As for the second part of that, no comment. Time will tell.

[MaydaX]

That the majority of pc gamers tend to play the newer games instead of mods now. The server stats have proved that as well. That is why it is NOT essential to have public dedicated files or mod tools. If you are talking about what the MAJORITY of the pc community wants.

That's the sad part these days players like me are now the minority and get flamed to hell and back for wanting the features that make PC gaming even better. Oh well least I had a 6 year run helping the PC community reduce the number of cheaters. I forsee that ending by the end of this year unless something changes. It won't be from MOH but CoDBO or Crysis 2 may give me a reason to stick around.

I am personally not accepting all of it. I did not buy/play MW2.

Problem is the majority are accepting the console ports and if that continues you will see more of this:
Many PC gamers told us they experience some juddery controls when playing Dead Space with a mouse and keyboard - something usually put down to a problematic port of the console game.

Visceral exec producer Steve Papoutsis told CVG that the studio was aware of the problem - but recommended PC gamers use a joypad with the second game.

"Yeah - we've heard that feedback," he said. "That's something we're focused on trying to improve. Not to sound snarky, but with Dead Space, honestly, the way we're playing it is with a gamepad. Even if you're a PC guy - if you have one - stick [your pad] in your PC and play the game with that. http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=250760

May as well buy the console, cheaper in the long run and no aimboters in MP.

[TRTL]

That's the sad part these days players like me are now the minority and get flamed to hell and back for wanting the features that make PC gaming even better. Oh well least I had a 6 year run helping the PC community reduce the number of cheaters. I forsee that ending by the end of this year unless something changes. It won't be from MOH but CoDBO or Crysis 2 may give me a reason to stick around.
I don't understand. Why is Pbbans done? Isn't Dice working with you and streaming BFBC2 servers? Why won't you be doing MOH then?

For the record. I have a lot of respect for what you have done for the pc community.

[MaydaX]

I don't understand. Why is Pbbans done? Isn't Dice working with you and streaming BFBC2 servers? Why won't you be doing MOH then?

For the record. I have a lot of respect for what you have done for the pc community.

Streaming itself is only part of the picture. Restricted server files has provided a great many headaches in BC2 as well as BF2 and BF2142 (Ranked). Lot of them from troubleshooting problems. It has gotten better as a lot of the PB files are now accessible but other games with public server files are still the games of choice to deal with.

Since all PBBans staff volunteer their time it becomes even more frustrating when your limited in what you're able to do.

[soulz2003]

Sure, developers have been doing a trend lately. That shouldn't stop you from support the PC community by doing what you do best; PBBans. As I've stated in other threads, Indie gaming is the new trend. I think that, in the next few months, if not years, you'll see many more games coming out that are exactly what your looking for, feature wise.

[MrBrown]

For me, mod support is only "nice to have", it's not a "must have". I completely agree with Misnomer that mod support costs lots of money for the developers, and that the developers won't make it back. The problem gets worse the more complex game engines become. Just take a look advanced animation systems like "Euphoria" (was used in GTA IV for example). You need expensive, licensed 3rd party tools to even create animations for this system. Modders can't just create skeletal animations and use them in such games, that's completely impossible. And IMHO this example is just the beginning.

A few years ago, mod support could perhaps keep people focused on your game until you release your next one, so that was at least a small advantage for the developers who gave you mod tools. But that situation has really changed dramatically . Mod support for BC2 would stop nobody from buying CoD:BO and wait for Battlefield 3 instead. And mod support for MW2 would've stopped no one from buying BC2 and wait for CoD:BO instead.

Another aspect is that we, the core gamers, have lost a lot of influence. We and the people we influence through our websites and communities are still there - but we've become a minority, simple as that.

[TRTL]

Another aspect is that we, the core gamers, have lost a lot of influence. We and the people we influence through our websites and communities are still there - but we've become a minority, simple as that.

I agree 100%. I think MW2 was the nail in that coffin. 250,000 + signed a petition and yet it had record sales? Enough said, we are screwed.