New MOH Trailer "Leave a Mesage"

[Tobi54]

hPKcRJwAf1s

Release date October 12th 2010

[fable2]

looks good

realism!

[_S_E_R_G_]

helmets and brain side of the head is too small. and faces all from BFBC2 :)

[Pendragon]

This is all irrelevant, So it looks nice in the cinematic trailers, so what! No game looks crap in the trailers. So the story is about some vaguely interesting people, so what?

Will it run bug free?
Will they support it properly because it doesn't run bug free!
Will it have proper dedi-server? (publicly released files)
Will it have mod tools?
Lean, prone, Punkbuster, redirect, record, in short will it be a proper multi-player game?

The rest is hype and window dressing and I really couldn't give a flying $%&* about the rest of this crap. Give us a game that works and we will play it, we will have a game to play and they will have their money. End of!

[ButchCassidy]

Ahh there speaketh a true gamer...:cool:

[Tobi54]

This is all irrelevant, So it looks nice in the cinematic trailers, so what! No game looks crap in the trailers. So the story is about some vaguely interesting people, so what?

Will it run bug free?
Will they support it properly because it doesn't run bug free!
Will it have proper dedi-server? (publicly released files)
Will it have mod tools?
Lean, prone, Punkbuster, redirect, record, in short will it be a proper multi-player game?

The rest is hype and window dressing and I really couldn't give a flying $%&* about the rest of this crap. Give us a game that works and we will play it, we will have a game to play and they will have their money. End of!


IG: You guys are calling this a reboot, but is there anything in the game that's sort of reminiscent of the older Medal of Honor titles? Is there any kind of throwback here and there to fans of the older games?

Goodrich: Absolutely, there are certain things that the Medal of Honor fan expects and quite frankly deserves, and there are certain things – not only little Easter eggs we’ve already put into our trailers – but game mechanics in the game itself, like peak-and-lean, going prone. All those things that Medal of Honor fans have appreciated in the past will continue, and actually there is an Easter egg and a nod to Medal of Honors gone by in the trailer coming out on Wednesday, so if you pay close attention you’ll see it and hear it.

Full Interview here:

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/medal-of-honor-team-looking-to-bring-franchise-back-into-the-conversation/

After looking at where the industry is heading, I wouldn't hold my breath for public files or mod tools, at this point I think it's a bit naive to still expect these things, especially after the way EA has choosen to go about their PC multiplayer with BFBC2. I really hope I'm wrong, but everything I've seen says otherwise. The only middle ground agreement I can see happening between the developers and modders is releasing mod tools for map creation, and for custom maps to be hosted on partner's GSP boxes, and even then it'd be long stretch.

[England4eva]

Can you lean left and right at unhuman angles while running? thats all I care about...

[Mr.Ray]

Yawn..........that is a minute or so of my life that I will never get back.


That simply blew. I dont mind watching the movi_nterludes during the game but in a trailer I would really rather see some gameplay footage.

Very disappointing...



Believe it or not but Im looking forward to this game. Give us something REAL

[Misnomer]

Yawn..........that is a minute or so of my life that I will never get back.


That simply blew. I dont mind watching the movi_nterludes during the game but in a trailer I would really rather see some gameplay footage.

Very disappointing...



Believe it or not but Im looking forward to this game. Give us something REAL


It comes out in October, you will recieve nothing real until maybe August. This is how it has always been. Unless there is a beta or something, I would not expect any MP preview until possibly a month or less before release.

Why is it that every time a new game is announce we all seem to act like it has never happened before? There is always a marketing trickle, into a deluge, and most of it is designed to entice casual gamers. It wasn't even a MP trailer. So how about a little less bile and a little more feedback about maybe...the single player content it was supposed to tease?




If the story is taken seriously like this trailer imples, it could be a very interesting SP experience. I liked the trailer up and until the "we're rangers" part because that sounded a little too beyond what you say to a kid you are trying to reassure. Otherwise it sounded pretty well based.

My worries are from the interview. That they won't tell this war's story and the need for "epic" cinematic scenes, like a WW2 beach landing, will override the gutsy story they might tell.

Otherwise it looks good. A return to war stories instead of this CSI/NCIS/Tom Clancy crap IW has foisted on the COD series.

[Busterking]

This is all irrelevant, So it looks nice in the cinematic trailers, so what! No game looks crap in the trailers. So the story is about some vaguely interesting people, so what?

Will it run bug free?
Will they support it properly because it doesn't run bug free!
Will it have proper dedi-server? (publicly released files)
Will it have mod tools?
Lean, prone, Punkbuster, redirect, record, in short will it be a proper multi-player game?

The rest is hype and window dressing and I really couldn't give a flying $%&* about the rest of this crap. Give us a game that works and we will play it, we will have a game to play and they will have their money. End of!


Very well said and we're not going to get any of that I'm afraid with this game.

Better hopes with COD Black Ops.

[bullet-worm]

Hmmm, lean? PRONE? Maybe DICE can figure out how to make that work in their new engine? Or is that going to be a single player feature only? hahahaha

I can see that conversation with DICE.

DICE: "We make GREAT multiplayer!"

EA: "Great! Oh, one last thing, the game needs lean and prone."

DICE: "Lean? Prone? We don't need these things, we make GREAT multiplayer"

EA: "It is part of the legacy of Medal of Honor."

DICE: "We make GREAT multiplayer"

I'm looking forward to the game, but I don't see multiplayer being a hit for me. Just can't get into Battlefield games...

worm

[Wizz]

Can you lean left and right at unhuman angles while running? thats all I care about...

LOL and ahhhh the good ol days of the past. I still see it in MOHAA when I play it every once in a while.

[zeroy]

Seeing that the first "teaser" we got had tons more images and content that this I-look-pre-rendered-but-Im-not teaser, i was expecting a bit more. Did you read the interview of that dude? This is suppose to mimic Normandy D-Day landing? dang! no it doesnt :)

On a more serious note though, this teaser brought us nothing at all but the last name of the possible main character - Patterson. Thanks EA.

[Jp-]

On a more serious note though, this teaser brought us nothing at all but the last name of the possible main character - Patterson. Thanks EA.


and actually there is an Easter egg and a nod to Medal of Honors gone by in the trailer coming out on Wednesday, so if you pay close attention you’ll see it and hear it.


The guy speaking is 'Jimmy' Patterson, which is the same name as the character from 3 or 4 previous MoH titles. So if that's the easter egg then we still know nothing, unless they are actually naming this character Jimmy Patterson as well.

[Mr.Ray]

It comes out in October, you will recieve nothing real until maybe August. This is how it has always been. Unless there is a beta or something, I would not expect any MP preview until possibly a month or less before release.

Why is it that every time a new game is announce we all seem to act like it has never happened before? There is always a marketing trickle, into a deluge, and most of it is designed to entice casual gamers. It wasn't even a MP trailer. So how about a little less bile and a little more feedback about maybe...the single player content it was supposed to tease?




If the story is taken seriously like this trailer imples, it could be a very interesting SP experience. I liked the trailer up and until the "we're rangers" part because that sounded a little too beyond what you say to a kid you are trying to reassure. Otherwise it sounded pretty well based.

My worries are from the interview. That they won't tell this war's story and the need for "epic" cinematic scenes, like a WW2 beach landing, will override the gutsy story they might tell.

Otherwise it looks good. A return to war stories instead of this CSI/NCIS/Tom Clancy crap IW has foisted on the COD series.


Yes I know the game comes out in October, I also dont expect much more until maybe August but perhaps in July but thanks for pointing out that which is already known. This isnt my first new game ever. This is what we usually get and we really dont require that you point out the obvious.

No one knew what course the trailer would take so why are you assuming that it was suppose to be single player content that would tease us? Again, obviously it was not an MP trailer either but none of us knew prior to watching it.

What bile are your referring to? You are very confusing for a supposed educated person. How about saying what you mean instead of trying to sound so.....sophisticated? Sorry but it just isnt working for you. Im trying like hell here to figure out if it was my statement (after all, you did quote my post) that was bile.

Originally Posted by Mr.Ray
"Yawn..........that is a minute or so of my life that I will never get back.


That simply blew. I dont mind watching the movi_nterludes during the game but in a trailer I would really rather see some gameplay footage.

Very disappointing..."
I simply stated what I thought of the trailer and after some additional time pondering my statement I have to conclude that to me it still sucked big time and was disappointing. If you have a problem with that and think it is bile still then kindly get over it please. My opinion is mine and you saying it is bile does not change my opinion.

You ask for "a little more feedback about maybe...the single player content it was supposed to tease?" How does one do that when there is no obvious information from the trailer that would or could lend an answer to that?

I put forth to you here and now that all we saw in that trailer was a little bit of cinematic filler that one would suspect was happening in Afghanistan and they were suppose to be Rangers. This is all stuff that we already know from previous sources. We got no indication of gameplay be it MP or SP from this trailer.

We got nothing. Simple as that. I was expecting a bit more and yet there was nothing of any real interest. So my statement stands that I was disappointed in it. If it makes you feel better though I was expecting a senseless statement from you in this thread so in that aspect I wasnt disappointed. :)

[anunnakian]

This is all irrelevant, So it looks nice in the cinematic trailers, so what! No game looks crap in the trailers. So the story is about some vaguely interesting people, so what?

Will it run bug free?
Will they support it properly because it doesn't run bug free!
Will it have proper dedi-server? (publicly released files)
Will it have mod tools?
Lean, prone, Punkbuster, redirect, record, in short will it be a proper multi-player game?

The rest is hype and window dressing and I really couldn't give a flying $%&* about the rest of this crap. Give us a game that works and we will play it, we will have a game to play and they will have their money. End of!

Wow, don't hold back, tell us what you really think :D
Although I kind of have to agree with your points, although I guess I could live without lean.

Anyways it was a very pathetic trailer that when I started watching I went :D then after a few seconds I went :undecided.

[Grim]

This is all irrelevant, So it looks nice in the cinematic trailers, so what! No game looks crap in the trailers. So the story is about some vaguely interesting people, so what?

Will it run bug free?
Will they support it properly because it doesn't run bug free!
Will it have proper dedi-server? (publicly released files)
Will it have mod tools?
Lean, prone, Punkbuster, redirect, record, in short will it be a proper multi-player game?

The rest is hype and window dressing and I really couldn't give a flying $%&* about the rest of this crap. Give us a game that works and we will play it, we will have a game to play and they will have their money. End of!

+1

Agree with everything you said Pen. Unfortunately my friend I'm afraid we are seeing games for PC gamers taking 1 step forward and 2 steps back. Until the consoles get up to the level and sophistication that we have with PC's I'm afraid we are going to continue to see wave after wave of games being released that just aren't going to be appealing to those of us that know better because we have experienced the difference. I.e. Let's slap something basic together for the masses (consoles), port it over for PC's and release it with bug's galore. Screw the PC community. Sad but true. Thankfully there are still developers out there like Tripwire that are watching out for us.

BC2 would be another good example. I'm a longtime fan of the COD series up until MW2 screwing us over with no Dedicated server support. Like bulletowrm I've played all the BF series too but they never had the feel (or appeal) that COD did for me. BC2 has closed that gap but has left out many key elements (lean, prone etc) that we are so used to. Now we have a playable game BC2 that is going to die off because there are no mod tools or maps for giving the game any longevity. Sucks! So what do we do? We look down the road for the next game that we think is going to be the winner just to be disappointed again. What to do, what to do?

Like Busterking, I'm interested to see what COD:BO is going to offer. Will the BO denote Body Odor? (the game stinks?) Time will tell. :p

One last thing, that scene (the chopper landing in the desert battle) in the MOH "Leave a message" trailer IMO does not compare to the landing at Normandy beach.
http://www.pbbans.com/sigs/1387e.png

[TSI_Destroyer_NL]

This is all irrelevant, So it looks nice in the cinematic trailers, so what! No game looks crap in the trailers. So the story is about some vaguely interesting people, so what?

Will it run bug free?
Will they support it properly because it doesn't run bug free!
Will it have proper dedi-server? (publicly released files)
Will it have mod tools?
Lean, prone, Punkbuster, redirect, record, in short will it be a proper multi-player game?

The rest is hype and window dressing and I really couldn't give a flying $%&* about the rest of this crap. Give us a game that works and we will play it, we will have a game to play and they will have their money. End of!

Too awnser your questions but you already know this

-No
-No
-No mark my words EA licencing system so no public files
-No (Mod tools hell only if they can charge big money for it besides it will ruin the plan for DLC)

last one good question lean prone redirect record it all depends on what will work on the consoles doesn't it so most things NO

Lean: maybe
Prone: well there is no prone in bc2 so probably no
Redirect ;you need something to redirect so no
Record:maybe but then again this seems to be always difficult to incorporate in the latest games

but then again time will tell

[HarryRag]

Haven't got much faith in it, and with the FPS games released in the past year (and a half) it's only getting worse.

So we'll see what comes after the release and watch for the comments, hmmmmm CONSOLE like shit and then think lucky me saved my money.

If it would go the other way around............ prob not........... neh lost my trust in that it is possible that EA (or ACTV) is going to release anything i liked from them as it started with MoHaa or vCoD for me with this genre of games.

And trailers say shit about the games these days :rolleyes:

[Mike Nomad]

This is all irrelevant, So it looks nice in the cinematic trailers, so what! No game looks crap in the trailers. So the story is about some vaguely interesting people, so what?

Will it run bug free?
Will they support it properly because it doesn't run bug free!
Will it have proper dedi-server? (publicly released files)
Will it have mod tools?
Lean, prone, Punkbuster, redirect, record, in short will it be a proper multi-player game?

The rest is hype and window dressing and I really couldn't give a flying $%&* about the rest of this crap. Give us a game that works and we will play it, we will have a game to play and they will have their money. End of!

Well said!! I'll make no excuses, apologies or concessions. If it does not meet the requirements - I keep my wallet closed!

[Misnomer]

What bile are your referring to? You are very confusing for a supposed educated person. How about saying what you mean instead of trying to sound so.....sophisticated? Sorry but it just isnt working for you. Im trying like hell here to figure out if it was my statement (after all, you did quote my post) that was bile.
:)

I apologize, your comment was not the bile I was referring to in my post. I quoted you because I wanted to respond to the trailer not showing anything. I was hoping people would talk about the possible campaign and the comparison of what the story looks like compared to the other war game stories we have had lately.

The bile I referred to was actually Pendragon's quote and all the cheering for it. So far, any time there is news about MOH the same rant is made and the same people cheer for it. While I get this and those are perfectly legitimate complaints, the anger is getting old and irrelevant.

If it is going to be another 4 or 5 months of the same statement every time there is a post about MOH (regardless of what it says)...it may get more tedious than the marketing.

Oh and I do think they captured something of D-Day and Vietnam in that scene. That many Chinooks flying in formation and dropping soldiers into a hot combat zone is not that common in Afghanistan as far as I know. It is the dramatic modern equivalent to amphibious landings and paradrops from WW2 games. They said it was cut for context. But simply the fact that you might rush out with many other soldiers makes it more like the traditional war games. It was clearly not like the super soldier Crysis transport drop that instantly isolated you and it seemed even more dramatic than roping in during Charlie Don't Surf in COD4 (though that helicopter formation rush was one of my favorite scenes in that game). That scene was more Vietnam than WW2, this one said WW2 to me.

[England4eva]

I quoted you because I wanted to respond to the trailer not showing anything.

I got this, your original post was well read-worthy and I agree with you on all the points you made.

Some people have other fish to fry and I`d just carry on with your opinion, it was valid, on topic and had reasoning to be here.

I especially agree with the "we're rangers" comment, it was very hollywood-esque, but then again as the line between games and & films blurs and cutscenes take over from real game play I supposed this kind of thing is to be expected with big blockbuster games these days.

[Mr.Ray]

Thanks for the clarification Misnomer, I see now where you were coming from. :)

As for the campaign and what it could possibly come to is pretty hard to pin down at this point. Not a whole lot to go on unfortuneately.

That both new games are following a similar path it will be interesting to watch (much less play upon the releases) to see how each studio approaches it and executes it. Im more of a multiplayer type of person so the single player is more for shits and giggles. I do like to be entertained by the single player though so I hope that they both deliver some good gaming fun for everyone.

When more information is available I will definitely participate in the discussions comparing the two. As of now it will be just speculation for the most part and I seldom do this though many others seem to enjoy it.

[TRTL]

I got this, your original post was well read-worthy and I agree with you on all the points you made.

Some people have other fish to fry and I`d just carry on with your opinion, it was valid, on topic and had reasoning to be here.

+1

The negative comments do get old, especially when those people that make them end up playing the game anyways.


Goodrich: Absolutely, there are certain things that the Medal of Honor fan expects and quite frankly deserves, and there are certain things – not only little Easter eggs we’ve already put into our trailers – but game mechanics in the game itself, like peak-and-lean, going prone. All those things that Medal of Honor fans have appreciated in the past will continue, and actually there is an Easter egg and a nod to Medal of Honors gone by in the trailer coming out on Wednesday, so if you pay close attention you’ll see it and hear it.

Did people just miss this post? The communication with the community on BFBC2 has been great. That's why BFBC2 is the success it is. Period....

[Mr.Ray]

+1

The negative comments do get old, especially when those people that make them end up playing the game anyways.





Man, Im glad that I didnt make any negative comments....What I did was voice my opinion of what I thought of the video just like many others did here and elsewhere. Im also glad that I dont always buy the games in question either. Im also glad that when I do buy a game that has the tools with it I build maps and help others to do the same so as to contribute to the community.

Im so glad that I do more for this community as a whole than troll one site and give out plus marks to friends to make them feel special. :rolleyes:

[England4eva]

Im so glad that I do more for this community as a whole than troll one site and give out plus marks to friends to make them feel special. :rolleyes:

I think we learnt by example ;)

Back on topic please Mr Ray.

[TRTL]

Im also glad that I dont always buy the games in question either.

I said PLAYING the game. I try and keep my posts short so you can understand them. Guess I will try harder next time.;)

Did I quote you when I posted that? I guess the guilty one's always respond.

Sorry, back on topic...

[Mr.Ray]

If an actual moderator or an Admin tells me that I have crossed a line then I will change my ways. In the meantime I will have no problem continuing to put up with the likes of some of the other members here.

TRTL, even keeping your posts short doesnt help you to be understood. :salute:

[TRTL]

TRTL, even keeping your posts short doesnt help you to be understood. :salute:

lol....

[England4eva]

If an actual moderator or an Admin tells me that I have crossed a line then I will change my ways.

I`ve been warned for a lot less.. then again.. I guess its because I don`t dance to the tune the organ grinder plays :D

Back to my original point, I agree with the post Misnomer made.

[Mr.Ray]

Back on topic....

Though the video did nothing for me except to make me yawn I still intend to buy this game if for no other reason than to experience it. I may like the single player and not the multiplayer or I may even hate the whole thing. The simple fact of the matter is that Im making the choice for myself.

No matter what I think of the game I will share my thoughts either way. If I like it then I will encourage others to buy and enjoy. If I think it sucks and was a waste of money then I will report that too and suggest that those whose minds have not been made up to consider passing on this title.

If new information is released that actually gives us some real intel as opposed to what we just received that changes my mind then I can always decide to not buy the game.

No matter what, I will continue to post my opinion as opposed to just parroting some other persons post.

[Tobi54]

I don't have anything against anyone here, but this whole exchange has gotten personal and off-topic, I'd suggest taking it to PM's if you guys feel the need to keep going. Moderators feel free to remove this post.

[Wizz]

I don't have anything against anyone here, but this whole exchange has gotten personal and off-topic, I'd suggest taking it to PM's if you guys feel the need to keep going. Moderators feel free to remove this post.

Agreed, that is why I edited the post before yours.

And yes if anyone has or wants a beef take the e-fight to PRIVATE. I will not tolerate it period.

[Busterking]

Some just hate to hear the truth.

No matter what. they still act like they know better then others even if the others have been around pc gaming for years.

How about showing some respect and growing up, getting some wisdom?

We have been saying all along, we want the games to improve and give us more options, not less.

No lean, no prone, no public server files and no mod tools ????


This isn't right! Smell the coffee. You are being taken for a ride. If they don't provide us with the basics then they are only out for a quick buck!


It's really not hard to understand.

[Tobi54]

Some just hate to hear the truth.

What truth are you referring to?

No matter what. they still act like they know better then others even if the others have been around pc gaming for years.

How about showing some respect and growing up, getting some wisdom?

I don't know what you're trying to say here, seems to me that you and whoever agrees with you are right, and whoever disagrees is on the wrong?

We have been saying all along, we want the games to improve and give us more options, not less.

No lean, no prone, no public server files and no mod tools ????.

Let me quote this again, since people keep on missing it:

IG: You guys are calling this a reboot, but is there anything in the game that's sort of reminiscent of the older Medal of Honor titles? Is there any kind of throwback here and there to fans of the older games?

Goodrich: Absolutely, there are certain things that the Medal of Honor fan expects and quite frankly deserves, and there are certain things – not only little Easter eggs we’ve already put into our trailers – but game mechanics in the game itself, like peak-and-lean, going prone. All those things that Medal of Honor fans have appreciated in the past will continue, and actually there is an Easter egg and a nod to Medal of Honors gone by in the trailer coming out on Wednesday, so if you pay close attention you’ll see it and hear it.

Lean and prone will be supported. I agree though, we want more, not less, but one thing is the direction we would like the games to go, and another is the direction the publishers and the developers take them. We can voice our concerns and try to find a middle ground, or we can boycott every game that doesn't meet our check list. I, for one, take the former rather than the latter, since I don't want to be stuck playing old games, as much fun as they are.


This isn't right! Smell the coffee. You are being taken for a ride. If they don't provide us with the basics then they are only out for a quick buck!


It's really not hard to understand.

The basics are there, just not in the way we want them.

[zeroy]

I don't know what you're trying to say here, seems to me that you and whoever agrees with you are right, and whoever disagrees is on the wrong?

I think what he is trying to say is that lately there is a bunch of "bums" (for lack of a better word) that seems to go lengths just to say black when the supporters of this site are saying white. Why do i say supporters of this site? FPSAdmin is this:

Game server admin's helping the community setup and maintain great dedicated game servers.

What the "bums" trolling here don't realize is that they are supporting some concepts and ideas (Trusted server, p2p gaming, subscription gaming, modtools-less games...) that decimate the PC Gaming as we know it and as a result slowly killing site like this one. Maybe one day they'll wake up ;)

[Mike Nomad]

.... <snip>

We can voice our concerns and try to find a middle ground, or we can boycott every game that doesn't meet our check list. I, for one, take the former rather than the latter, since I don't want to be stuck playing old games, as much fun as they are.

The basics are there, just not in the way we want them.

You say we should concede to the wishes and policies set forth? I say, you go for it. Its your money, spend it as you see fit.

I'll make an informed choice - a choice that meets my expectations, needs and satisfaction. After all, its my money and I'll spend it as I see fit.

It won't be long before ppl are paying and paying and paying. Sites like ours are going to be a thing of the past. They'll either become "fan" sites of sort or eventually fade into the sunset of when games were games and not cash siphons.

"Gaming is changing & NOT for the better!"

[Pendragon]

Zeroy has a point, this is not a "General" gaming site. Not just another PC site for that matter. We represent a some particular sub-groups, one built on a succession of games that all share common points.

Games like the original MoA and CoD games. An entire business and community has build around games like these. Games that do not fit into this common mould will be heavily criticized and rejected. (MW2 for instance)

The type of people normally found here include:

Game Server Providers
GSP Tech support
Mod Makers
Custom Map Makers
Admin tool software developers
Competitive Ladder Admins
Server Admins
Clan Admins

There have always been other people here, gamers and game devs lurking. We are one of the few independent forums. One beyond the reach of the Publishers, you'll not get banned for criticising a game, Publisher or dev here. But please understand what we are about as a group, the trick is in the name! FPSAdmin!

We do have rules! Play nice and don't get personal. Think before posting, if that means taking ten minuets away from the keyboard and making a cup of coffee then do so before hitting the send button. Please be mindful of who you are about to have a pop at! Some of the people here are not what they first appear. Just like any forum arguing with forum moderators is always a tricky business.

The one group that is really not welcome here is the "Official game Publishers Forum Troll!" If you normally hang about on Publishers forums you will know about the type of people I'm taking about. Paid/unpaid corporate trolls! The heavy mob stopping around official forums stamping on anyone that strays from the corporate line.

[Mike Nomad]

"Official game Publishers Forum Troll!"


SHUDDER....... May we never suffer the fate.

[Tobi54]

You say we should concede to the wishes and policies set forth? I say, you go for it. Its your money, spend it as you see fit.

I'll make an informed choice - a choice that meets my expectations, needs and satisfaction. After all, its my money and I'll spend it as I see fit.

It won't be long before ppl are paying and paying and paying. Sites like ours are going to be a thing of the past. They'll either become "fan" sites of sort or eventually fade into the sunset of when games were games and not cash siphons.


"Gaming is changing & NOT for the better!"


No, I'm not telling you or anyone what to do, or how to spend your money for that matter. As a matter of fact I agree completely about making educated choices, completely against DLC, closing off the mod community, etc. But me being against it doesn't change the fact that it's happening.

[Tobi54]

I think what he is trying to say is that lately there is a bunch of "bums" (for lack of a better word) that seems to go lengths just to say black when the supporters of this site are saying white. Why do i say supporters of this site? FPSAdmin is this:



What the "bums" trolling here don't realize is that they are supporting some concepts and ideas (Trusted server, p2p gaming, subscription gaming, modtools-less games...) that decimate the PC Gaming as we know it and as a result slowly killing site like this one. Maybe one day they'll wake up ;)

I understand your points, and they're very good ones, but I'll disagreee on a couple of things, I don't think it's fair to be calling names to anyone on either side of the discussion, I seriously doubt people are going out of their way to troll on these forums, yes sometimes the discussions get a little heated, but I really haven't seen real trolls, just different points of views. Also these people that you say are going against supportes of this site, are supporting it themselves, by posting their opinions here and contributing to the discussions.

As for supporting concepts and ideas that are killing PC gaming, well BFBC2 relies on 2 of the 4 you mentioned, and I know you, Pendragon, Rudedog and a few others play the game, so by your logic you're supporting these very concepts yourself, but I know none of you guys do. All I'm saying is that it's not completely black and white, and because some people seem to disagree doesn't automatically make them corporate shills.

[Mike Nomad]

"Gaming is changing & NOT for the better!"




Says it all.... ;)

[Misnomer]

As for supporting concepts and ideas that are killing PC gaming, well BFBC2 relies on 2 of the 4 you mentioned, and I know you, Pendragon, Rudedog and a few others play the game, so by your logic you're supporting these very concepts yourself, but I know none of you guys do. All I'm saying is that it's not completely black and white, and because some people seem to disagree doesn't automatically make them corporate shills.

I agree with you and this why Zeroy posted this comment that thoughtfully didn't name me :p:

What the "bums" trolling here don't realize is that they are supporting some concepts and ideas (Trusted server, p2p gaming, subscription gaming, modtools-less games...) that decimate the PC Gaming as we know it and as a result slowly killing site like this one. Maybe one day they'll wake up


I disagree with 2 parts of that list. I have been "FPS admining" my clan's BC2 server far more than any of my clan's COD4 and COD5 servers lately. Definitely more than the MW2 non-existant servers. It is hard to say that there is no admining being done because there are no server files when the BC2 forums here are full of admining advice and suggestions. This is especially misleading since we have a BC2 developer working with admin tool developers here on this forum.
Therefore, it is quite a statement to say that Trusted server is killing FPS admining, it could be argued...but there is evidence here on this site that it is not.

P2P has no admining and destroys clans. I agree that we should not be supporting them here.

Subscription gaming will be interesting to argue. I don't know of any FPS games on that model yet, but I suppose we will get to argue Huxley here if it ever comes out. COD:MMO may come out before that, but I doubt there willl be an admining in either. So you are right there.

Mod tools are an option in admining. Mod tools or not is an interesting debate, but there is absolutely nothing that says a game cannot be good and admined without mod tools. Plenty of games have been.

So, out of that group, I don't see many people defending the ones that are prohibitive to admining.

BUT....if they are, it is in the news section. Before this thread was derailed (1 post in) it was about trailer for Singleplayer. While we are about admining here, we often discuss things about gaming that are beyond fpsadmining. Sometimes we just talk about FPS things. While it is detrimental to the community to actively support things that destroy it (MW2), it is still discussed here along with most other things even mildly FPS related.

There is a difference between coming here and trolling, telling everyone to give up and use IWnet and arguing that games with admin tools and some limited control of servers are worth our time. We don't ban people who would prefer to game on Macs and currently those are prohibitive to admining and we shouldn't ban/harass someone who thinks MMOs are the future of the genre. If they were in the admining sections responding to questions about admining with the MMO gospel, then we would have a problem.

Loosen up and have a respectful conversation about the item at hand (rereading the OP sometimes helps).

[zeroy]

^^ Glad you came and prove my points ;)

[woowoo]

As mentioned in the two prior posts this debate seems to be about what BC2 (and DICE does and doesn't do) and if it kills PC gaming.

BC2 meets the minimum requirements to continue community / clan gaming. It does not meet all of the requirements to enable the PC community to thrive but they seem to be working hard to earn our business (more on this below). For us, BC2 was a great alternative to the non-community approach of MW2. I also see support of DICE helps bring them into the PC community fold.

With continued PC support I expect them to deliver mapping tools in the future. The job description for the community manager is telling:
• Monitor and communicate with existing mods / look for possible mods to give ranked server support etc
• Map making competitions
• Q&A for Clans / Mod-groups / media / PR
• Maintain community wish list documents for potential future title updates
• Manage communication and feedback process for public beta tests*

Note the "look for possible mods to give ranked server support". This would be a huge breakthrough. Community mapping and modding has been hurt terribly by having ranked servers - while mods / custom maps were very common in CoD2 they didn't get as much traffic in CoD4 and CoD5 UNTIL everyone had ranked up. By having rank-able mods and maps this could once again bring mapping / modding front and center again.

So you see why I have hope in DICE? They are beginning to understand what the PC community needs and are working with us. I reward them for this behavior. Only time will tell if they will become the PC communities best friend or someone who fell short. You can tell me I'm being naive but I believe that DICE has real potential. I will also reward Treyarch, and any other top gaming companies for their support of the PC community.

[TRTL]

Let me share with you how I view what the issue is in the PC community and these forums.

There basically is a struggle between two sides.

One side we have the mod makers, custom map makers, etc. If games continue to get released without mod tools and independent server files, their value in the PC community is greatly if not completely diminished. Some might say,"So what. Get a new hobby." I feel we should view it as not that simple. This group (modders & mappers) have given more time working for the PC gaming community than most people will ever realize. To most of them it is more then a hobby, it defines their very existence in the community. I have been around long enough and utilized their products to appreciate what time and effort they have put in to what they do. That includes Maydax and pbbans. If the need for them and their product is eliminated, their significance in the community is dissolved. If that happens it would be a shame and a loss for the entire PC community due to the time they have given and work they have put in for the gaming community. That is why they stand strong with their convictions and beliefs. I RESPECT their position and I honestly hope it doesn't go against them.

On the flip side, we have server admins, clan leaders, and regular gamers. Who are just trying to play a game and stay together. The point here being, to us, the difference between MW2 and BFBC2. MW2 is/was a clan killer, period. If we can not admin a server, we can not recruit and continue to grow. BFBC2 does not give us everything we want, but at least we can continue to move forward as a clan. For how long, who knows, and is it perfect? Hell no! However, for our survival, what we attempt to do is support the games that do have dedicated server files so we can continue. We don't want the PC community to look like people that complain about every game and then buy it anyways(MW2). The question here is, at what point do the game developers quit listening to us all? We feel threatened like the modders & mappers do because of MW2 and the success it has. The number of copies it sold and the number of people that play it, would intrigue any developer to make a game similar to it. With MW2, I took a firm stance with my guys and we didn't buy it. I lost a few guys, but we hosted the SP campaign for them to play and continued to play CODWAW and BF2 online. MW2 ripped a lot of clans apart. Again some would say, "So what?" We must remember what part of the equation that clans are responsible for; paying and maintaining the majority of public servers everyone plays on.

I really don't feel that we are too far from being on the same side. Right now we both feel like our backs are against the wall. So things do appear to get personal and ugly from time to time. However, I feel it is because we are standing up for OUR future survival of what we built over the last 7-10 years.

I can only speak for myself, but I do not hold any grudges to anyone. My agenda and what I am trying to accomplish within the community differ from others. I am simply trying to survive in this changing gaming community. However, I still feel a since of loyalty and responsibility to the PC community. I have played and hosted many mods and have been streaming to pbbans for years. I do appreciate the work and what has been brought to the gaming community from all the individuals involved.

[Neil]

As mentioned in the two prior posts this debate seems to be about what BC2 (and DICE does and doesn't do) and if it kills PC gaming.

BC2 meets the minimum requirements to continue community / clan gaming. It does not meet all of the requirements to enable the PC community to thrive but they seem to be working hard to earn our business (more on this below). For us, BC2 was a great alternative to the non-community approach of MW2. I also see support of DICE helps bring them into the PC community fold.

With continued PC support I expect them to deliver mapping tools in the future. The job description for the community manager is telling:
• Monitor and communicate with existing mods / look for possible mods to give ranked server support etc
• Map making competitions
• Q&A for Clans / Mod-groups / media / PR
• Maintain community wish list documents for potential future title updates
• Manage communication and feedback process for public beta tests*

Note the "look for possible mods to give ranked server support". This would be a huge breakthrough. Community mapping and modding has been hurt terribly by having ranked servers - while mods / custom maps were very common in CoD2 they didn't get as much traffic in CoD4 and CoD5 UNTIL everyone had ranked up. By having rank-able mods and maps this could once again bring mapping / modding front and center again.

So you see why I have hope in DICE? They are beginning to understand what the PC community needs and are working with us. I reward them for this behavior. Only time will tell if they will become the PC communities best friend or someone who fell short. You can tell me I'm being naive but I believe that DICE has real potential. I will also reward Treyarch, and any other top gaming companies for their support of the PC community.

Pretty much agree with woowoo on this. There could be possible mod/map tools in the future. Maybe DICE are concentrating on getting the game as stable as possible before looking into tools for the game. You never know. I certainly didnt expect them to patch the game as often as they have going by previous BF titles.

From what I can see they have adopted a similar approach to Valve by communicating with the community and providing frequent patches. Maybe not as quick as Valve but a lot better than they used to be. Even if they could provide map making tools and introduce a scheme where community maps could be made into official maps. That would be good start.

The bit where it says "look for possible mods to give ranked server support", I dont think thinks this means mod tools but actually forum moderators. Thats the way I read it anyway.

[England4eva]

At the end of the day its all hot air, while its nice to discuss things here it all makes little difference.

What some people seem to forget is publishers, game developers etc are no longer the long haired student in his parents bedroom coding what he would like to see, a game for gamers, by a gamer type product.

This is big business, they are producing for the mass with one goal, money. No matter how much we kick, shout or scream our view won`t be heard and our opinion doesn`t matter.

I think it was Tobi who said something along the lines of there needs to be a stop to this blanket ban type attitude if not all requirements are met, it isn`t going to happen and anyone holding out for that needs to look elsewhere for their enjoyment, gaming isn`t for us now, we are thrown the scraps, we either accept what we get or look for something with more paletable scraps... either that or find a new hobby.

On a more personal note, I respect everyones opinion here, I don`t always agree with it, but I feel everyone is entitled to their view, maybe if certain groups stopped ganging up on certain members then more people might feel able to air their opinion and not think they need to fall in line with the mod maker, map maker, server admin or high status "community member" - status in the "community" doesn`t make anyones point more valid.

[zeroy]

What some people seem to forget is publishers, game developers etc are no longer the long haired student in his parents bedroom coding what he would like to see, a game for gamers, by a gamer type product.

This is big business, they are producing for the mass with one goal, money. No matter how much we kick, shout or scream our view won`t be heard and our opinion doesn`t matter.

Thats where you are wrong ;) -- We'll soon have the answer with Treyarch's COD:BO

[FightingScallion]

I have no idea if this is on or off topic anymore, but here's my thought:

I liked that trailer. I saw shades of Call of Duty. I saw a chance at a real, good, patriotic war story that is about the normal guys. Rangers may be special, but there are still around 2000 of them.

The thing is, most of the stories lately have been overly SpecOps oriented. Too many super-soldiers critical to the war. The reason you had to stay alive in CoD was that you wouldn't be there for the story to continue if you died. So they forced you to live.

And, much as it might irritate some who don't like the US, I'd really like to see a nice game where I can be proud of my country at the end. Not in the "Damn we kick ass" way. More in the "And that's why I still believe in us. We may mess up sometimes, but damn...we do some things very, very right."

Really, I'd like to see some games from developers in other countries to do the same for them (I really would). But I would never expect to have the same emotional response to something invoking Dunkirk as my British allies would. Those points of national pride are just hard to translate to others...and that's why they are national.

So, if they can make the single player game keep up this kind of tone and be engaging and long enough to be worth the cost, I'd take it. I don't really care if the MP is just an add-on. It's been too long since there was a really, really good SP of this sort.

[zeroy]

And, much as it might irritate some who don't like the US

I wouldn't say not liking the US but i must admit, I for one would like to see other nations "special forces" in FPS games sometimes .... The only games doing this are not the best when on MP: Stalker is one example - then again its based on fictional stuff ....

[woowoo]

This fall is shaping up to be interesting with MoH releasing a month ahead of the new CoD:BO. Good news is that there will be a beta for the MoH game - not sure on CoD.

I know more what to expect on CoD.

So I have a technical questions about the upcoming MoH title which will answer most of my other questions. What game engine MP have? Frostbite or the Frostbite 2 that has been in development?

My group will be choosing between these two titles come October. I will be watching the information about both with fascination.

[rudedog]

Here is another problem.

Publishers are in it to make money and sell their product to the largest audience.

Facts are facts that the hard core community of mappers, modders and server admins, hell even the hard core console players, are a very very small fraction of the customer base. The competitive community is even smaller then us.

It's time to realize we really do represent a very small portion of the pie and when given something valuable like mod tools and dedicated servers bits we can run on our own servers we should be very grateful. Activision and EA are both big companies who are in it to make money, not make you or me happy. It would be nice to make everyone happy but sorry this is the real world.

I was just recently told MOH:Airborne sold very well on most platforms even though I thought it nose dived. Again we don't have all the "real" numbers and will never get real numbers so we have to support what we get and vote with our wallets.

Sorry to take this off topic and I really wish I had the time to write an in depth article about this and other things the gaming industry does vs what we expect. As well as what the gaming industry does to make the normal "grown up" customer batty... Not enough time in the day or even home.

[woowoo]

Here is another problem.

Publishers are in it to make money and sell their product to the largest audience.

Facts are facts that the hard core community of mappers, modders and server admins, hell even the hard core console players, are a very very small fraction of the customer base. The competitive community is even smaller then us.

It's time to realize we really do represent a very small portion of the pie and when given something valuable like mod tools and dedicated servers bits we can run on our own servers we should be very grateful. Activision and EA are both big companies who are in it to make money, not make you or me happy. It would be nice to make everyone happy but sorry this is the real world.

I was just recently told MOH:Airborne sold very well on most platforms even though I thought it nose dived. Again we don't have all the "real" numbers and will never get real numbers so we have to support what we get and vote with our wallets.

Sorry to take this off topic and I really wish I had the time to write an in depth article about this and other things the gaming industry does vs what we expect. As well as what the gaming industry does to make the normal "grown up" customer batty... Not enough time in the day or even home.

Well said and it is the reality of the situation. I'm just trying to save PC gaming.

[TRTL]

It's time to realize we really do represent a very small portion of the pie and when given something valuable like mod tools and dedicated servers bits we can run on our own servers we should be very grateful. Activision and EA are both big companies who are in it to make money, not make you or me happy. It would be nice to make everyone happy but sorry this is the real world.


I couldn't agree with you more. Wish others would wake up and realize this. Glad to see this is the official stance of fpsadmin. Best post I have read in these forums for a long time.

Like Woowoo said, I am just trying to save what I have built and love.

[ButchCassidy]

I actually started a thread based on Rudedogs comments where I was hoping many from this community would discuss these latest trends towards removing all the things we have enjoyed in the past from PC gaming..

It would be interesting to have peoples views as to why they think the major publishers are moving in this direction.

Why do Publishers no longer listen to PC communities anymore? (http://www.fpsadmin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20424)

[HellBilly]

last moh titel i bought was break through ...then i got airborne cuase everybody body said " they promise to fix it " ... yeah im done with EA games ... pc, 360 , ps3 .. im over it