Rcon STATUS... How to fix

[Cobra]

I had some big trouble with rcon status.

But i got help from IW-Inherent
And gave me the right info that i needed to solv the problem.
So thanks to IW Inherent

Here you will find the solution to the rcon status problem (http://serverwatch.daniel-rudolph.de/content/docs/faq.html)

[ColdLogic]

Thanks a lot Cobra, I really need the fix. It figures that after I tell everyone how my status worked fine, that it breaks when we mess with the server a bit. :) Hope all goes well, or at some juncture that IW will fix the problem themselves (or will your solution not need their fix?).

With the fragmented packets, will a DMZ allow fragmented packets to be accepted? I'm having trouble finding documentation on this issue for a LinkSys Router. Does anyone else know how to set to allow fragmented packets up on a Linksys Router? Thanks.

[Cobra]

Thanks a lot Cobra, I really need the fix. It figures that after I tell everyone how my status worked fine, that it breaks when we mess with the server a bit. :) Hope all goes well, or at some juncture that IW will fix the problem themselves (or will your solution not need their fix?).

With the fragmented packets, will a DMZ allow fragmented packets to be accepted? I'm having trouble finding documentation on this issue for a LinkSys Router. Does anyone else know how to set to allow fragmented packets up on a Linksys Router? Thanks.

It is not more than i have found the problem for rcon status not to work. And telling you how it is possibel to fix this.

And as fare as i can see IW have no errors in the game with the rcon status and becase of that dont have any needs to fix the rcon status problem.
Becase the are not responsibel for the hardware/softweare we are using on our computer.
It is US the gamers that should learn a litle more about the hardware/software we buy.
But OK for a long long time we have not known this was the problem..... But this some one should have solved for a long time ago. This is just normale easy thing to find the problem to.
just by taking the router away and connect direct to the internet we would have learned that hey it works now. and found the error to be in router/firewalls.

So i my eyes IW has nothing to correct or say sorry for.
this is us the gamers who has said all the time that it is the game.
and dont have put any time into trying to find the solution our self.

But from now on i gues people have learned to ask when they buy a router if it is possibel to let fragmentet packs past the router/firewall.
Most of them would have this feature.... it is just to find what they have hidden it behind for a name in the setup.


And no i dont think that DMZ will fix the problem....
But mabe in some routers because it is a lot of diffrent computers out there.
But i dont think that will help.
I have added some sreeshots of my router and where and how i fixed it on my computer.

[ColdLogic]

I still believe that IW should fix the problem. If they changed the command stucture or made the status command make multiple sends w/ multiple replies then packets could be divided up correctly and recieved by the routers.

It is very careless to make administrators have to change their Multi Hundred or MultiThousand Dollar hardware setup for a $50 game. I do place the blame on the game and not the hardware. So if they could come up with a fix to deal with this issue that is affecting us gamers who are behind routers with multiple comps connected to the internet that would be great.

I hope they do fix it, since now that the problem has been targeted, I would assume they can come up with a workaround. Thanks for your help in the mean time Cobra.

[Cobra]

I still believe that IW should fix the problem. If they changed the command stucture or made the status command make multiple sends w/ multiple replies that packets could be divided up correctly and recieved by the routers.

It is very careless to make administrators have to change their Multi Hundred or MultiThousand Dollar hardware setup for a $50 game. I do place the blame on the game and not the hardware. So if they could come up with a fix to deal with this issue that is affecting us gamers who are behind routers with multiple comps connected to the internet.

I hope they do fix it, since now that the problem has been targeted, I would assume they can come up with a workaround. Thanks for your help in the mean time Cobra.

If you have a expensive router it will be possibel to fix this easy in the configs.
But if you have one that`s cost just a litle, then i dont know if it is any possibility to set it in the router.

So this is only a problem for people that have goten a router to 50$ or so.

And you say you blame IW still for this.
Well that is wrong i think.
Becase they are not responsibel for what kind of hardware you have at home.

[imported_Enforcer]

They just use normal UDP over IP.

UDP: http://spectral.mscs.mu.edu/RFC/rfc0768.html
IP: http://spectral.mscs.mu.edu/RFC/rfc0791.html

IP:

1.1 Motivation

The Internet Protocol is designed for use in interconnected systems of packet-switched computer communication networks. Such a system has been called a "catenet". The internet protocol provides for transmitting blocks of data called datagrams from sources to destinations, where sources and destinations are hosts identified by fixed length addresses. The internet protocol also provides for fragmentation and reassembly of long datagrams, if necessary, for transmission through "small packet" networks.


Fragments:
http://spectral.mscs.mu.edu/RFC/rfc0791.html#nidFragment

They dont implement something strange they just use the normal protocol stack of the operating system

[Aces]

i dont have a router that i know of

i have a client ip and a server ip thats what the status tells me on my connection icon

dsl by the way

i only use norton internet securities 2002 no other firewals

i even tried turning norton off

didnt fix


so what is the problem ?????


amd athalon 1800+
64 mb nividia geforce mmx 400
soundblaster live 5.1
768 mb pc133 ram
40 gig hard drive
running xp home

hope this will help

Aces

[Cobra]

3 options left then.

1. you have your windows firewall on....
2. the DSL box that you got whit your dsl has a router inside it.
3. your Serverprovider stops it.

[Oracleman]

Does anyone else know how to set to allow fragmented packets up on a Netgear router? Does this have anything to do with MTU ?

[Cobra]

Well i have been looking at NetGear site now....

And i have to say they have not match on the internet that can help people to fast solve a problem.
they have poor manuals on the internet.

So if I had your problem here.
I would write a mail to the tech support.
Go to www.netgear.com and see if you can find a mail that you can send to for help.
They should be able to help you fast with how to configur your router for making it let UDP fragmentet packs in.

[ColdLogic]

I found another solution Cobra. After finding out that not all linksys routers handle broken packets, I ended up changing the MTU size.

If you drop this down to about 800 (I'm not sure what the ceiling is), then your computer will call for multiple packets, not just one like when you MTU is at 1500. At 1500 the router expects only a single packet reply that is broken and won't be received as one so you get nothing.

Try that if you have the option in your transfer settings on the router. Now I'm not sure about NetGear, but this does work with LinkSys.

[Cobra]

Yep i have been reading about it.
But i was not safe if it would work so i did not say anything to the man whit that setting in his NetGear Router.

Good to hear that it works man.

Now we have the solution for 3 routers...
this is just great.

So i gues you dont blame IW anymore now as you found out how to set your system up right man. :!:

[Cobra]

Does anyone else know how to set to allow fragmented packets up on a Netgear router? Does this have anything to do with MTU ?


Well looks like it can be hidden in the MTU then in some routers the solution for them who has MTU.
As cold logic did test on his router and got to work.

Ha had a MTU on 1500 and changed it down to 800.
So you try do adjunt your MTU and tell us if you get it to work allso.

[Oracleman]

And i have to say they have not match on the internet that can help people to fast solve a problem.
they have poor manuals on the internet.

Well, they have complete and very good manuals for all their routers there in pdf format. Thanks anyway.

I'll try that MTU stunt instead and report back later today.

[ColdLogic]

Hehe...I'll still blame IW. :wink: They made me shrink my packets... :cry: And you know what they say about a guy with big packets. 8-)

[SNYPE]

MTU setting for NIC also needs to be checked in the OS too. The trouble can be either at the game server end (router/OS) or if you trying to access the game server console via rcon, it could be at your end too (router/OS).
Here is info on how to change it and a link to a tool to do it:

http://www.adslguide.org.uk/guide/mtu.asp

http://www.dslreports.com/drtcp

[ColdLogic]

I only changed the router MTU's. That alone fixed my problem. I did nothing to my Ethernet settings via Windows what so ever.

[Oracleman]

I only changed the router MTU's. That alone fixed my problem. I did nothing to my Ethernet settings via Windows what so ever.
To 800 ?

[SNYPE]

If you want to test the optimal settings ping your game server from the computer that needs to run the Rcon using the info in this site: http://help.stargate.net/broadband/mtu.shtml
http://help.stargate.net/broadband/mtu_ping_test.shtml

MTU can vary from ISP to ISP, routers along the path to the game server you are playing on may also fragment the packet. If you use a single ISP or the ISPs you use have the same MTU then use the ISPs MTU. If you use many different ISPs with different MTUs then
leave the MTU setting at default or use smallest.
Run the DOS MTU Ping test to find what settings are on the route to the game server and then set it appropriately.
I wouldnt just set it to anything you may create other problems.

[ClickBouyow]

Once again, it is NOT the router, network or the the client computer that is generating the problem. It is the GAME ENGINE. Logically, if the game ENGINE creates fragmented packets after X number of players connect to the game, then the GAME ENGINE is the problem, not the NETWORK, ROUTER, or MY COMPUTER. What is causing fragmented packets is the real question. ALL Quake III engines do this. The root of the problem is the NETCODE. It doesn't have the ability to handle today's network traffic. That is why iD, EPIC, and others have dropped the Quake III engine for more advanced ones that can handle the netcode.

So, I appreciate your attempts to help everyone, but saying "you need to buy a more expensive router and open up your system to possible compromise" is not feasible, and is wrong. IW and Activision need to look at how the game engine processes information and how it sends it over the net. They will have to find a way to NOT fragment packets.

[imported_Enforcer]

>Once again, it is NOT the router, network or the the client computer that is generating the problem. It is the GAME ENGINE.
If that is really true you would be ever able to make it work. But you are if you allow your computer to resemble fragmented UDP packages.

?? If you have more then 1500 Bytes you want to send you have to use fragments.

I dont did a tcpdump to look at the packages but im close to sure the q3 engine do nothing that is not rfc like. To do something wrong you have to implement you own netcode and not "just" use the sockets the OS gave you. Why you should do that ?

Fragmented packages are no bad. They just got disabled on some routers because some !sorry for that! kids use it without knowing anything they do in the internet. So ok lets filter fragmented UDP packets to file one possible kind of an DOS to the network behind.

I posted the link already to the RFC. Fragmentation is a normal feature of IP and its necessary because of how the internet works. Maybe something is really going wrong if there are so maybe players on the Server but i dont saw a traffic dumb for now. If is really a Q3 engine related problem i really would wonder about and be sorry for my postings. But udp fragmentation happens everywhere. IF you have a net between like ATM on the internet your Ethernet Packet or what every you have must be spitted and after the ATM it get reassembled.

Now IW has the simple problem that one command can create more then 1500 Byte of result data what is a normal MTU nowadays and that is where the problem starts.
I don’t have any server here atm I can test that on but maybe I get one and I can show you a dump.

[imported_Enforcer]

http://serverwatch.daniel-rudolph.de/download/rcondump.txt

here you have the proof all just like it have to be.
Packet i marked that it is fragmented - packet 2 with offset. :wink:

[ColdLogic]

Oracle, 800 is the MTU size that I have tried. It may work with a larger break, but if you want to test that out go ahead.

Yeah I still think that IW should fix the issue or get someone who can change the console to fix the issue. This ONE game out of how many doesn't function correctly (or at least this ONE console). But they aren't the standard or correctness and until I buy my system to ONLY play this game, they should adapt to the rest of the world that works with most default router and computer settings. Not every game player wants to become an IT expert. :wink:

[SNYPE]

Once again, it is NOT the router, network or the the client computer that is generating the problem. It is the GAME ENGINE. Logically, if the game ENGINE creates fragmented packets after X number of players connect to the game, then the GAME ENGINE is the problem, not the NETWORK, ROUTER, or MY COMPUTER. What is causing fragmented packets is the real question. ALL Quake III engines do this. The root of the problem is the NETCODE. It doesn't have the ability to handle today's network traffic. That is why iD, EPIC, and others have dropped the Quake III engine for more advanced ones that can handle the netcode.
IW and Activision need to look at how the game engine processes information and how it sends it over the net. They will have to find a way to NOT fragment packets.
I wouldnt jump to that conclusion so fast.
Game engines do NOT create net packets, IP Protocols (like UDP) do.
The game engine produces the data and UDP converts the program-generated data messages into packets to send through IP. Routers and NICs carve up the packets to send and thats where this fragmenting occurs. Sure they may have bad net code that the Protocol has trouble with but this MTU problem is well known. If a router receives a packet to forward, but the packet is larger than the MTU for the outgoing interface, the router fragments the packet – breaks it into smaller packets. IP routers do not reassemble fragmented packets and the packets are dropped.
Incorrectly configured routers and NICs create fragmented UDP packets and thats a well-known fact:
http://www.ripe.net/pam2001/Abstracts/talk_10.html

UDP is different from other protocols in that it doesnt care if it gets dropped, the transmission will continue and the user wont see anything normally and thats what makes it so fast. But those dropped packets DO happen and misconfigurations will make the problem worse.
In the game the only thing that happens is a momentary hiccup in the data transmission, just enough to drop packets with rcon commands but not enough to drop the connection entirely.
I would recommend that those that have trouble do some testing and I will bet you 95% will find that either your router needs to be tweaked or the settings on the NIC via the OS are not set correct. (could also be your ISP but thats a problem for them to correct).
Most older routers have hard coded the MTU settings so they are usually not configurable. The newer ones have changed this. Also many router mfrs have added this ability to their firmware updates.

[imported_Enforcer]

@SNYPE
you read my posts ? I dont wanted to be such hard but sure its not a problem of the game - only a problem on the way the packets goes from the server to "you".

Most of the times its like you said. The last cheap router with a crappy default setup or something else like that cause the problem.

SMC Barricade router.....

http://69.56.211.2/Avatars/SNAG-0026.jpg

[SNYPE]

Brian--thanks for the picture.
Most firewall routers will block fragmented packets which is the reason for this discussion.
Improper configuration of routers and NICs can CAUSE this fragmentation.

[2drunk2funk]

My rcon utility (in sig) can query player information with Rcon and Query mode.
This gets around the fragemented packets issue (Query mode returns far less data) but still lets you see players, Kick/ban/message them.

Have clan colleague who had issue and can now quite happily admin the server.

Give it a try.

[2ndForRcn_Helmut]

I have a Linksys BEFSX41 router and can't get status to work :x
The MTU size is 1492 but I have tried 800 and others with no luck
If I bypass my router and connect my DSL modem directly to the PC
and use XP's PPPoE status works fine with 30 people on the server

Can anyone give me an idea to try with my router, will IW fix the
problem with a patch or is not a problem they need to fix (this post goes back and forth on that issue :? )

Just want to get this to work :x

Helmut

[ColdLogic]

I have that exact router model from Linksys. Sorry about the number confusion...but 700 worked flawlessly for me. But, it d/l so slow I upped it to 1400. The reason I can use nothing in between is that I can't connect to servers when the numbers are inside the 700 1400 range.

Now that it is bumped up to 1400 the only way I get status to work is by repeating the command over and over. I think Linksys deserves an e-mail about the packets arriving out of order. I also think thats why repeating works, because for some unknown reason after I run the command repeatedly by:

1. type: /rcon status
2. hit: enter
3. hit: (up arrow)
4. hit: enter
5 repeat steps 3 & 4

I can get the packets to come in order. Its quite frustrating actually, and damn Linksys anyway.

[ctec1]

I have the same Linksys router and it works fine even with 15 or more players.

I had to disable the Advanced Firewall Protection which disables Stateful Packet Inspection. Try it and let me knowif it works for you :smile:

[imported_IW-Inherent]

fixed in 1.3, no longer needs to fragment packets.

[Keg]

fixed in 1.3, no longer needs to fragment packets.
I'm sorry if I seem noobish, just looking for some confirmation, the status problem is fixed in 1.3? and when will 1.3 be out?

[IchBin]

I have a D-link 704 and I've never had any probs with status.

Looking forward to 1.3, now hurry up already. :)

[Keg]

since 1.3 my status results have dropped from about 20 people to 10-14 that I can see. 1.1 it was everyone all the time.

[imported_Enforcer]

i dont know what they think if they release it like it is now.

In 1.3 the packages dont get spitted if they are to big. What is normal for IP. Nooooo the server send several answers. And because of UDP the packages dont came in the right order.

What does that mean? That i think every tool what used rcon status has a problem now.

I have also big problems with ServerWatch only because they listen to people in the community who have non working hardware?

Maybe it sounds rough but I really don’t understand why they have done it. If somebody want some details what that is NOT what people want feel free to ask. (Short: UDP the packages dont came in the right order – so tell me how to order 5 packages THAT ARE NOT NUMBERED in the right order – I have a solution now that this one is really dirty programming)

A little frustrated Enforcer