I Should Have Done More Research

[bullrees]

Silly of me to expect a new game to work correctly or have features that have been around for years.


I heard about the demo but quickly dismissed it because It "couldn't" be any good.As all gamers do, I got bored one day and decided to give it a shot.To my surprise the demo was very good....I played it through a few times.I thought the multiplayer would be amazing from watching the mp videos.

I had visited the MOHA site many times by now to watch all the videos.I did not know there were serious "known" problems.I never thought to look for it in a finished game.

I had been considering canceling my (rented)COD2 server because it wasn't getting many players and I was bored with it when MOHA came along.I immediately looked through my game host forum (gameservers)to see if they had plans to host this game. Nothing there.There were many requests in the request section so I added mine to the pile.I also tried a lame attempt to trick them into giving me a time frame buy submitting a ticket asking if I could keep my "free" website if I signed up for a MOHA server.The very same people that had helped me with many situations said "I haven't heard anything on the MOHA servers".BUT there were company's pre selling MOHA servers.

I found out there was no dedicated servers in the release and my server bill was coming.The patch was coming(17th?) soon after my payment was due so I closed my server.I could wait a week. I decided to purchase the game the day it came out for 49.99US

I went to my local best buy at 2pm when it was "going" to be available for purchase but they had not received the shipment.No ones fault really.I checked the best buy website later and it said it was available.I went back to the best buy at about 3:30pm but there were none on the shelf so I asked a bb guy in a wheelchair (broken leg) if they had it.He pecked at the computer for a bit then he wheeled himself to the warehouse to get it for me.I thanked him when he returned with it feeling a little bad that he had to go to so much trouble in his condition but not too much because I had been to the store already and stopped at a few on the way home to find it.

When I put the dvd in and the auto run started.... by computer rebooted.(8800gts/c2d6400/4GB ram)

I eventually got the SP to run fine......but in my search to get the game to run I found out..............What I didn't know.



I SHOULD HAVE DONE MORE RESEARCH

I will no longer expect games to work on release or have basic featues.......silly me

[GaSplat]

I have taken a wait and see attitude with game companies, especially EA. About the only one I trust to deliver quality out of the box is Valve, and Splash Damage. Both of them tend to get it right.

On the bright side, we did get a nice, free, demo for MOHA. That is probably the only part I will play unless the patch delivers a lot more than I think it will or EA does a complete 180 and actually supports the game with mulitple patches.

Besides, I get bad mouse lag on the demo.

[LordMaximus]

Researched the game more? Wrong. You should not have to research a game. The game should be what the developers say its going to be and thats the bottom line. Thats what marketing is for and if you are lead to believe or told one thing and then delivered another you are a victim of deceptive practice. Wether they intended to deceive or merely screwed up they are still responisble by law.

EA scammed us plain and simple and if the patch is not what we want you can bet my clan and some other clans members are going to start some legal action. One of our clan is in law enforcement and I have a friend that is a very high powered Federal Judge that can help me since he himself is a MOH fan. He might be doing something himself already.

Having BH (EA messenger) dropping by admin sites and other forums digging up feedback and playing the whole "EA wants your feedback for the release of MOH AB" and then using none of it seems deceptive to me. They get you hyped up and then they don't deliver. I don't think BH is at fault either. I think He is merely a Pawn at EA and the decision makers shed a deaf ear or like most think they know it all.

None the less my clan members are going to wait and see what this delayed patch brings and EA may have some powerful attorneys but I think there will be plenty of support for our side to make a difference. If we petition we will need 2000 signatures to get the ball rolling. Sooo many people feel duped over airborne, but we will wait and see how this patch goes. I personally hope the patch turns out good. I like the gameplay and Airborne has tons of potential.

[necrodoggy]

Wait, so what you're saying is that EA should act like any other company and not...lie...to it's customers? Now there's a concept.

Perhaps if gamers would start thinking of EA as a company that has falsely advertised and sold a defective product instead of like the neighborhood drug dealer who may or may not provide you with the stuff you actually bought, maybe then they would stop kissing EA's ass and start filing lawsuits.

[LordMaximus]

What I would do at this point is wait for the patch and see what comes of it. Going to court is the last thing anyone wants to do.. I have been in lawsuits before and I can tell you its no bowl of cherries. I have sued people in the past for say "not paying me rent for 10 months" I won my case hands down but the time frame for everything to take place was long and drawn out and then I have to go back to court to sue again to collect the money they owe.. A class action suit will take much longer and require a greater amount of support from a greater amount of people.

I think EA screwed up but I also think that they relealize their mistake and if people show some patience that things will pan out. I'm not defending them but I do own two businesses myself and it can get very demanding trying to meet everyones needs. Most people think of themselves in almost all cases and forget the rest of the worlds problems.

I say give it some time and if things don't get any better than start your campaign to take action against them, but be sure you have a small army of support or you may as well forget it. I prefer to keep the channels open at this time to make things work.. if that fails, well we may take the lead on action against them.

[bullrees]

I'd be willing to give EA all the time they need to perfect their game....if I could do it with MY 50.00us in my pocket.When I purchase software...I don't expect it to reboot my high end computer.What I really don't like is all the people that say "wait for the patch".Give me my money back...then I'll be happy to wait.I expect something I pay for to work.If you operate a business...I hope it doesn't include selling this software.

Edit:There seems to be no way to change the password for the multiplayer so I can't even give the game away.I've asked on moha forum but no one seems to know.I changed my ea pass but it did not change the moha mp pass.Does anyone know how to do this?It may be a simple thing.
MOHA forum link to my question http://forums.ea.com/mboards/thread.jspa?threadID=286685&tstart=0

[LordMaximus]

One thing that you need to realize is programmers have to make software to work on thousands of combinations of machines. If they actaully took the time and invested the money it took to make it perfect for everyones machine you wouldn't be able to afford the game.

It would take years of testing and the way the pc industry always changes about every 3 months.. their work would never end and you would never get the game. Thats an unachieveable goal. They have to draw the line somewhere and yes.. the consumer becomes some what of a tester but figure out a better way to do it and let them know. I'm sure all software companies especially microsoft would like that answer.

It would be impossible to release a perfect game that runs on everyones machine.. the release date of the game would come and the time it took to ship more newer hardware will already be out.

I have a 10 year old computer business. I purely build, repair and maintain high end machines such as workstations and servers or just home PC's I mainly work for the healthcare industry and other commercial businesses. I also beta test for microsoft.

Now granted.. More extensive testing can be done, but remember.. the more they spend, the more you have to spend. The best way to deal with it is to improve beta testing for the games and involve more people, but then you risk leaking game info and ruining the newness of the game on release.

Believe me.. If someone had a better idea that worked I'm sure many companies would be interested in hiring that person.

Its a balancing act. I do feel however that with all the time EA had, that too many resources were spent elsewhere and therefore the game really didn't get the developer time it needed. To many hit titles are soon to be out.. Do the math.

[bullrees]

Well lets see.
One thing that you need to realize is programmers have to make software to work on thousands of combinations of machines. If they actaully took the time and invested the money it took to make it perfect for everyones machine you wouldn't be able to afford the game.
Having it work on "thousands of combinations" is a bit overstated.There are only two mainstream cpu manufacturers,two mainstream gfx card manufacturers, and one mainstream os with a few different flavors.You should be able to expect a game to work with any of these mainstream combinations.It does not....at least out of the box.

It would take years of testing and the way the pc industry always changes about every 3 months.. their work would never end and you would never get the game. Thats an unachieveable goal. They have to draw the line somewhere and yes.. the consumer becomes some what of a tester but figure out a better way to do it and let them know. I'm sure all software companies especially microsoft would like that answer.
I don't work for EA so I don't care one bit how they figure it out.Paying to be their test subject is not something I will accept.Don't produce a product if you can't guarantee it works.Not my problem

It would be impossible to release a perfect game that runs on everyones machine.. the release date of the game would come and the time it took to ship more newer hardware will already be out.
I've had my hardware for at least 6 months.C2D 6400/8800gts/xp pro sp2.No reason for the game not to work when I put the dvd in the drive.

I have a 10 year old computer business. I purely build, repair and maintain high end machines such as workstations and servers or just home PC's I mainly work for the healthcare industry and other commercial businesses. I also beta test for microsoft.
You sell computers to 10 year olds?Tough market.Joking

Now granted.. More extensive testing can be done, but remember.. the more they spend, the more you have to spend. The best way to deal with it is to improve beta testing for the games and involve more people, but then you risk leaking game info and ruining the newness of the game on release.
50.00US for a game that doesn't work when you get it home is very expensive any way you look at it.

Believe me.. If someone had a better idea that worked I'm sure many companies would be interested in hiring that person.

Its a balancing act. I do feel however that with all the time EA had, that too many resources were spent elsewhere and therefore the game really didn't get the developer time it needed. To many hit titles are soon to be out.. Do the math.
Agreed

[LordMaximus]

Originally Posted by LordMaximus
One thing that you need to realize is programmers have to make software to work on thousands of combinations of machines. If they actaully took the time and invested the money it took to make it perfect for everyones machine you wouldn't be able to afford the game.
Having it work on "thousands of combinations" is a bit overstated.There are only two mainstream cpu manufacturers,two mainstream gfx card manufacturers, and one mainstream os with a few different flavors.You should be able to expect a game to work with any of these mainstream combinations.It does not....at least out of the box.

Sorry but your wrong and it shows how little you know about pcs, hardware and firmware. Not every component is made exactly the same because it works with the same chipset or processor. The comment thousands is way understated actually. The combinations of hardware including each and every possible hardware vendor/company with its own version of firmware etc and PCB layout is probably not even conceivable. One graphics card may have additional features another doesn't. Motherboards have tons of features that others don't and may not work or impair certain software. Add a tuner card.. add a nic.. add 1 of many kinds of sound cards.. then you have to take into consideration cheap memory.. Now the big one.. OVERCLOCKED HARDWARE! I do this for a living and I beta test for microsoft.. you have no idea the amount of possible configurations. No offense, but next time you should do more research. I used to host an enthusiast hardware review site and I keep up with latest and greatest everyday.. not to mention all the old stuff thats out dated that the public expect the games to work with as well so.. companies have to make it work for old pc's and new. EA and some others are drawing the line on old hardware now days. For two reasons, less time to develop because fewer hardware components to write for.. and like consoles.. makes more business for people like Nvidia or ATI when you need a better video card to run the game.

It would take years of testing and the way the pc industry always changes about every 3 months.. their work would never end and you would never get the game. Thats an unachieveable goal. They have to draw the line somewhere and yes.. the consumer becomes some what of a tester but figure out a better way to do it and let them know. I'm sure all software companies especially microsoft would like that answer.
I don't work for EA so I don't care one bit how they figure it out.Paying to be their test subject is not something I will accept.Don't produce a product if you can't guarantee it works.Not my problem

See above.. it happens get used to it because unless we shut down all the competition and make the computer world one huge monopoly with one supplier.. is will happen and always will happen. I don't work for EA either.. If I did this crap would be under more controll or I would have quit or been fired for being pissed off.

It would be impossible to release a perfect game that runs on everyones machine.. the release date of the game would come and the time it took to ship more newer hardware will already be out.
I've had my hardware for at least 6 months.C2D 6400/8800gts/xp pro sp2.No reason for the game not to work when I put the dvd in the drive.

This one really cracks me up... One of the buggiest POS's out there that supports DX10 is Vista and your card was designed for DX10.. your expecting it to work on old technology without problems? Yeah sure it should work fine.. ever heard that one before? Its backwards compatible.. LOL XP is old news, SP2 when it was released caused more problems than it fixed. XP came out in 2002, You should beta test.. All the bugs people find and then the company says.. we will fix these, and mess with these later. The bugs fixed may be 20 the ones left may be 100's, So how many versions of the 8800GTS video cards are out there? and how many other 8XXX series chipsets exist? Then you have the 7XXX, 6XXX series etc. What about ATI and its plethra of chipsets and some of the other less known graphics card manufacturers.

I have a 10 year old computer business. I purely build, repair and maintain high end machines such as workstations and servers or just home PC's I mainly work for the healthcare industry and other commercial businesses. I also beta test for microsoft.

You sell computers to 10 year olds?Tough market.Joking

I don't mind jokes.. Jokes are good. My business has outlasted many others here. Also everything I know about pcs was learned by hands on.. no training. I even teach at a college and have no teaching degree I didn't need it to get hired.. I was even approached I never applied.

Now granted.. More extensive testing can be done, but remember.. the more they spend, the more you have to spend. The best way to deal with it is to improve beta testing for the games and involve more people, but then you risk leaking game info and ruining the newness of the game on release.

50.00US for a game that doesn't work when you get it home is very expensive any way you look at it.

Not gonna argue that.. the game needed more time and testing.. hands down.

Believe me.. If someone had a better idea that worked I'm sure many companies would be interested in hiring that person.

Its a balancing act. I do feel however that with all the time EA had, that too many resources were spent elsewhere and therefore the game really didn't get the developer time it needed. To many hit titles are soon to be out.. Do the math.

Agreed

I'm not picking a fight and believe me.. I am not happy with MOH A, but since I have been a tester.. and I have been into PC's on a commercial scale and enthusiast scale I can see where things can happen. The bottom line is, things like this deal with EA is the number one reason many companies flop or loose money, customers and support.

EA = PISS POOR MANAGEMENT! The root of most companies closing their doors.

[bullrees]

LMOA

The air must be really thin way up there on your high horse.Don't confuse simplicity with ignorance.There would be an infinite number of combinations if you want to go back to 80486 days and drivers for every single thing you plug in.Even today there are probably thousands of combinations but the software only needs to work with the hardware on the min required list.This narrows down the list quite a bit.It's probably still a big number but it should at least run on the mainstream stuff.

That is what I was saying about"being overstated".The software does not work with the hardware they claim it works on.So saying it needs to work on thousands is "overstated"if it doesn't even work on the mainstream hardware.If it works on a EVGA 8800gts and not a MSI 8800gts then it's a problem for MSI not the software.

Either way we're basically on the same side here.

[LordMaximus]

LMOA

The air must be really thin way up there on your high horse.Don't confuse simplicity with ignorance.There would be an infinite number of combinations if you want to go back to 80486 days and drivers for every single thing you plug in.Even today there are probably thousands of combinations but the software only needs to work with the hardware on the min required list.This narrows down the list quite a bit.It's probably still a big number but it should at least run on the mainstream stuff.

That is what I was saying about"being overstated".The software does not work with the hardware they claim it works on.So saying it needs to work on thousands is "overstated"if it doesn't even work on the mainstream hardware.If it works on a EVGA 8800gts and not a MSI 8800gts then it's a problem for MSI not the software.

Either way we're basically on the same side here.

Biggest reason for so many problems with Airborne is its a ported console game (based on layout, options etc of the game) The Unreal 3 engine is the backbone and was basically stripped of a lot of things to make it function on a console (I could be wrong but sure looks that way), so not only was it hacked up, but it was intended for consoles... and even though consoles have video adapters.. like Nvidia and processors like intel with a mainstream hard drives there is still the problem of complexity and combinations of hardware etc and being ported (basic code copied over) amplified the problems because of the lack of support for all the computer hardware out there. What is mainstream? Mainstream in the computer world is a misused word. If its Intel its mainstream? AMD? 32 Bit? How can anything really be mainstream with computers and if so, for more than a month?

My high horse?? I never claimed to know it all and based on the complexity and huge amount of variables with PC's (no one knows everything about computers) and I will openly admit it. However, I feel I have a very good knowledge of the principles and functions of computers because I can see past my desktop.

Everything about a computer is completely dependant on the OS and software and each piece of hardware has it own firmware that tells the software all it needs. Since there is a huge number of hardware combinations any of these could affect the game or anything else installed. For instance.. Some people are having problems installing the game because the DVD drive will not read the disc. Ok so whats that got to do with the video or the game? Nothing. The firmware of the drive is the problem.. All DVD's may seem just alike but not one is the same unless its exactly the same model and that model may have a more up to date firmware.

You can keep on trying to insult me all you want but your ignorance of the grand scheme and complexity of software and computers is obvious. One Brand of video card versus another is only one part of the equation.. you forgot the the DVD drive oh and what else? SLI? Hyperthreading? Dual core support? EPP settings for SLI support and timings for high end memory that directly effect the video playback.. or the lack of? Crossfire Vs. SLI? I could go on.. Each piece of additional hardware changes the way the OS functions which in turn can change the way each of the components of your pc responds to the same commands because of IRQ's and other things that control.. the way the piece of hardware works and therefore reads and understands the software installed.

Another huge problem.. Sound cards and IRQ conflicts with Airborne. Each sound card requests a different IRQ based on the PCI slot or PCI-E slot its in. Move it from one slot to anohter and it will look for another IRQ which could cause another problem.. IRQ conflicts cause errors and can cause poor playback.. or even loading failure. You have Direct X and all of its variables and which ones are loaded based on the hardware you installed and what that hardware supports and does not. OpenGL for instance has so many commands now that most older games will stall or fail to start at all because of the huge complexity of code to support an enourmous amount of video variables that some hardware can understand and others hardware can't..

The basic principle of the game (the code) should work in most cases. yeah.. most cases, but most people don't have the exact tested hardware they use when codeing for the game.. For instance.. ever see the hardware requirements? Uh.. thats there for a reason.. and one more thing before I depart from this post. The Unreal 3 engine is the backbone of the Airborne game.. and that said.. was hacked all to hell to make it work on a console the way EA wanted it to. Airborne is a ported console game.. so now are you going to tell me that all consoles are alike as well and you can take a PS game and put in an XBOX and because they both have DVD drives and video adpaters that it will or should work because it also uses a processor? Oh.. and let me get real deep on the last note. 64 vs 32 Bit! Wanna go there?




Air thin here.. no not at all. Actaully feels heavy today. Oh. and fix your LMOA.... Now I am ROTFLMAO!

Have a nice day!

[bullrees]

You make very good points.I've never claimed any were wrong.You started with the insults.The only point I made was you should be able to expect the game to work with the mainstream hardware/software.I don't remember a game that had so many problems.If you had some odd dvd drive,gfx card,or some other odd component ,a small number would have problems.But with the widespread problems I think we got crossed up.I may not test software for a living but I didn't need to change the irq for my sound card the last time I installed a game or anything else I've installed the last 500 times.I know quoting the a+ manual gives you a good feeling about yourself but it's not really needed.Enjoy....done

[LordMaximus]

You make very good points.I've never claimed any were wrong.You started with the insults.The only point I made was you should be able to expect the game to work with the mainstream hardware/software.I don't remember a game that had so many problems.If you had some odd dvd drive,gfx card,or some other odd component ,a small number would have problems.But with the widespread problems I think we got crossed up.I may not test software for a living but I didn't need to change the irq for my sound card the last time I installed a game or anything else I've installed the last 500 times.I know quoting the a+ manual gives you a good feeling about yourself but it's not really needed.Enjoy....done


You may want to re-read my posts.. I don't see where I insulted anyone. You took some pot shots at me.. And just like this post you take a shot at me by saying I quote an A+ manual.. Everything I explained was stuff I have learned from hands on.. I don't need a manual and that manual is basic as hell. I don't need to pat myself on the back and I could care less if people agree or not. I was purely stateing facts for a better understanding. Maybe you don't have IRQ conflicts, maybe you have all the mainstream hardware... but not everyone else does.

I'm not going to continue this because I was not attacking I was explaining. Next time I will refrain. Anytime you think I am wrong about testing and hardware setup.. find a beta tester... find someone leading the testing and ask them about all the possible configurations and how difficult it is to make software (games) work on almost all PC's.

The game is buggy as hell.. and I have IRQ conflicts with it and I have one of the top of the line Fatality Gamer Sound cards and becasue of my Nvidia chipset thats mainstream (590 SLI) I have problems with other games.

Have a nice day!

[bullrees]

your wrong and it shows how little you know about pcs, hardware and firmware. is a little insulting.Assuming everyone else is a retard and has no understanding of the obvious is also a little insulting.

It's quite possible that I over reacted to what I considered insults.My original post about doing more research was more about the company's record on support and their track record with games.I believe you were sincerely trying to help and we got off on the wrong foot.I apologise for intentionally insulting you when you were trying to help.I hope there are no hard feelings and you get your irq issues worked out with your sound card.

The only problem I had with the game was the reboot problem and that's easily fixed by holding the shift key so autorun doesn't start the game.

Side note:
I succeeded in changing my ea pass so I was able to give this p.o.s away.Of course you can't change the nick but oh well.

[The_Comfy_Chair]

...It's quite possible that I over reacted to what I considered insults.My original post about doing more research was more about the company's record on support and their track record with games.I believe you were sincerely trying to help and we got off on the wrong foot.I apologise for intentionally insulting you when you were trying to help.I hope there are no hard feelings and you get your irq issues worked out with your sound card...


... I'm impressed, you're a Class act. Both of you backing down from the all-out-war ... It's Damm nice to see people work out their differences and come away smiling. Reminds me of the Super-Hero team-up cliche in comic books... :D