Server Question

[Diva]

I have a question regarding the Servers when this comes out, This might of been answered before, But as far as EA goes I have loved every game they have put out played mohaa, BF 1942 since it came it and vietman et....

I know one reason im not buying 2142 and gave up on BF2 was becasue of the ranked servers.

Will Airborne have ranked servers or will it be just like a normal server? we can put on our Dedicated Box's?

[Wolverine]

I have been asking about this since I learned of MOH:A. Its been asked several times and unfortunately the question has been danced around every time.

I really really hope that it simply falls under the "these are the type of questions we are not allowed to talk about yet" instead of not being answered to avoid giving people something to gripe about (if it were true) before release.

As I strongly agree with you on this Diva and given the number of times the question has come up I am kind of starting to worry.

[Ghost-Ryder]

Same here.
I am a server Admin and the ranking system really screwed things up for everybody.
Way to many restrictions on how to run a ranked server.
All the point padding that is going on ect....

I hope it wont be included in MOHA

[[TPG]MoFo]

I wouldn't put it past them. They basically have squeezed the small GSPs out of the picture on 2142. Now you can only rent from the big GSPs at $5+ per slot. They charge the big houses a per/slot fee which is then passed down to the clans through high prices. Whereas, BF2 saw prices fall after the small GSPs started reselling servers, they don't allow that with BF2142. I look for them to pull the same garbage with this game. It's all about vertical integration...they want a piece of the pie from the game sale down to the server rental. EA are game nazis imo and will ruin FPS gaming as we know it.

[rudedog]

Here's my take on official EA ranked game servers and the history that surrounds it:

Way back in the Delta Force 1 days, (where I really got my start in MP gaming) we only had public type servers. Then around DFLW we had ranked servers (forgot what they called them) but anyone could run one. This divided the community and pitted each side against each other on who was the better player, ranked or public players (we public players kicked their asses playing their ranked game over and over).

Fast forward to BF2's release and the announcement of ranked servers.

I hated the fact that EA was the only one's that could run "ranked" servers and vowed never to play on them.

When BF2 was released, with it's new game play that pushed the players to play as a team (commander and squads), not to mention the little hidden gem, unlocked weapons. I tried the ranked servers out.

I fell in love, you had a set of rules that where enforced by EA that you had to run, this kept everything on a clean playing field. How I hated to join a server to find out it's knives only or something that was not clearly marked via the server name (you name it so, I have no problem with it)

Now all I played was ranked BF2 server, why because at the time there where no custom maps or mods released.

Now that there is a choice, like POE for BF2 I don't play ranked server at all. but would not mind jumping in once and a while but I still love custom maps and mods more then ranked.

With that all said, EA does not make any money or get a piece of the pie from GSPs reselling official ranked servers. What EA does get is a commitment from the GSP to run x number of ranked server all the time, if they rent them or not.

So if your a ranked GSP, you need to have, say 10+ (not the real number as I don't know what the real number is) servers up running BF2 ranked, even though you've only rented 3 of them for the month. This way there are plenty of ranked server to play on and not just for sale by the GSPs

EA does not get a cut of any profits, the GSPs are the one's setting the price not EA. However I would assume they need to set the price a little higher because of the number of servers they need to run.

I bet once you see more mods released for BF2, the need for more ranked server will decrease. I bet that is why they reduced the number of GSPs running official server for BF2.

While I said I would never play on ranked servers, I do and enjoy them more then I did back in the Delta Force days because EA/Dice came up with some great ways to enforce team work.

With all that said, anyone looking for unranked POE servers with tons of team work should check out the tactical game server and community. You have to join a squad in 60 seconds or get kicked, you need to listen to your squad leader, they have special squads for air, tanks and infantry. This is my favorite server to play on right now, simply because they took BF2 team oriented play and expanded on it....also because it's not ranked :)

Oh and I have no idea if EA will have ranked MOHA servers. I guess if they are working on team play via MP then yes, but if they are distenceing themselfs from BF2142 (adware) then they will not.

[Wolverine]

My bottom line is this.

My clan owns its own box. We spent a lot of money building it and plenty more money getting it on a good connection. In return we get to play whatever games we like. We can preview new games in a controlled environment and then if we like it we keep it.

Along comes the ranked server thing and suddenly we are being discriminated against for spending all that money to support the various fps games out there. Now we have to rent from EA or one of thier approved GSP's in order to have a fully functional game server? We cant afford that as a clan. Maybe there are a lot of silver spoon clans out there where money is no object but we are NOT one of them.

I am sorry EA but no matter how much MOH:A may rock if you punish me and my clan for owning our equipment by using the ranked server system then you can stick your game where the sun dont shine.

[rudedog]

well said shim

You hit the nail on the head and something I forgot about. I don't run a server anymore (damn real world getting in my way all the time LOL)

Hopefully around the first week of Nov, we will know more about MOHA and it's server components.

[JAKL]

I for one hope they don't introduce ranked servers in MOH:A. If they do they should at least make it easier for the public communities to host ranked servers on their own hardware.

Two things killed BF2 for After-Hourz, one the ranked vs non-ranked and the inaccurate ping displays in the server browser. In order to get traffic to our BF2 servers we've kept server #2 and 3 at version 1.0 and they are consistently full.

The server ping issue was the nail in the coffin. It was fine in version 1.0 and with first series of patches something was broken. Even with our servers being unranked before the patches two of our servers were ranked in the top 5 globally. After the patch and the ping issue and it was tumbleweeds and crickets in our servers.

I personally love POE but the lack of http redirect will make that mod tough to grow. There are some good custom maps being developed for that mod but with no way to distribute them other than forcing someone to a website I don't see it growing. The numbers playing the mod are already showing that with usually less than 300 playing even with almost 500 servers (including AHGN) running it.

I can understand from a business model, EA wanting ranked servers but from a community admin that owns their own hardware it was a real kick in the nuts.

[BlackHat]

I have been asking about this since I learned of MOH:A. Its been asked several times and unfortunately the question has been danced around every time.

I really really hope that it simply falls under the "these are the type of questions we are not allowed to talk about yet" instead of not being answered to avoid giving people something to gripe about (if it were true) before release.

As I strongly agree with you on this Diva and given the number of times the question has come up I am kind of starting to worry.


"these are the type of questions we are not allowed to talk about yet"

[rudedog]

"these are the type of questions we are not allowed to talk about yet"


I know most people will not like that answer but you know what, at least BH comes in here and states that, which is a lot more then other devs are doing with there WWII FPS game

Thanks BH

[rudedog]

Thanks for the info. I did not know EA is getting a kick back for ranked 2142 servers or shall I say making money on reselling their games.
So EA is lic. server slots from GSPs. I think this is a really bad move and to bring this back on topic. I really really hope EA does not do this with MOHA.
IF this is true, then with the success of BF2 I can see where they are trying to milk this but paying EA a lic fee per slot on top of getting money from advertisers = they should be giving the game away for free

(disclaimer : I was given my copy of 2142 for free by EA to eval)

I really don't think MOH:A can handle this type of business case until EA can show us how great MOH:A really is (gameplay and support after the game ships)

MoFo;49217']Rude, with all due respect, I beg to differ. I have it on good authority that EA is in fact charging the GSPs for 2142 per slot. This is a change in the ranked program affecting only 2142. I am a ranked BF2 reseller and am not allowed to sell 2142 because I'm not on the preferred list for 2142. They have limited it to a total of approx 12 GSPs...all the large houses.

When the small GSPs at Hypernia, The Planet, etc, started entering the BF2 ranked market as resellers, they drove down the cost for BF2 servers to where it is today, about $3/slot. Good old market economics. Now, EA has removed that little loophole so they can control it and still get their piece.

Now they will tell everyone that this is all done to control lag and make sure ranked boxes run smoothly. The one problem with that is the same market forces that drove down BF2 prices come into play here too. Answer this; who is going to play a laggy server? Who is going to rent a laggy server? Answer is, you won't. You will leave that provider or find another server to play. This makes it impracticle for anyone to operate a laggy server and those that do will go out of business quick. That's why their "excuse" doesn't fly with anyone in the know.

Bottom line is, these guys want to control who runs their servers and ensure they get their part of it. Yes, I can run unranked, but until the mods come out, very few play unranked servers. So, I wouldn't put it past them to try this same model with Airborne. Just watch and see.

That's my 2 and I'll speak of it no more.

Thanks for letting me rant.:p

[bullet-worm]

It really and truly frightens me that EA will not talk about this yet. To me, that means they are at the very LEAST considering it. At worst, it may already be planned but they don't want to talk about it since they know it will be a lightning rod topic.

Airborne is poised to take a HUGE marketshare back from the CoD franchise. In my oppinion, ranked servers could be the un-doing of what could have been an otherwise successful title.

"Authorized ranked server providers" are a NO-NO! I will absolutely NOT support this game to the communities I belong to if it is run the same manner as 2142.

I do not mind the theory behind unlocks, but I do mind EA dictating whether my privately owned server is in some way inferior to the one's they (EA) can charge monthly for.

There has been nothing wrong with the server model before in MoH titles or other titles in the genre. Look at CoD2, there are litterally THOUSANDS of empty servers just sitting there, I certainly would not call that a supply problem.

In fact, to go one step further, I would actually argue that the reason EA must require ranked providers to commit to a certain number of servers (sold or not) is because of the ranked issue itself. EA is creating its OWN shortage of servers artifically.

I don't buy the security argument either. So some guy may figure a way to unlock all the ranks... So what? It isn't like players would not eventually get there anyway. If they want to cheapen the experience for themselves, so be it. It doesn't really effect anyone else's experience since they could be up against other players of any particular rank anyway.

"Authorized ranked server providers" is nothing but a money grab. Plain and simple.

And for 2142 it is a double-whammy. Not ONLY are the players PAYING for the game (at FULL price I might add), they are also paying EA for the server, AND on top of that EA is making advertising dollars from in-game ads!!! Holy Money Grab, Batman!

To make a long story short, just say "NO!" to special EA-approved ranked server providers. It is NOT in the best interrest of the players. (Unless EA is planning on giving us the game free. Then we can talk about it. ;) )

worm

[Diva]

As a clan as said in one of the above post we have a dedicated box as well and we run what we are playing currently 2 mohaa spearhead serves and 3 cod2 servers. We did at one time have BF2 ranked that doubled what we were paying for in servers in time we could not afford it anymore. Which ended our BF2 division becasue im sure like other clans our clan likes to have a server dedicated to the game we play - we do pub in other servers but we do like to have some control of a server so we kick/boot the noobs our and not worry about the kids coming in making a ruckus - we are older folks on my clan so we like to keep the server clean.

Well anways I think as far as ranked servers go I think EA needs to realize that people buy the game for other reasons for example i tell my friend go get that game its cool gamers tell gamers et.... and so like BF2 in our clan I would not recommend it or recruit for it at all one reason - ranked servers.

Now if EA was smart IMO make it like original mohaa - look at how many people are still playing it after all these years shoot we even have servers up still for it - its a great game. with whatever comes out of this i would be happy with a anticheat on the old game and new maps ;) i would play it for another 3 years. but as for the ranked servers if it comes to that - we as a clan probably will be waiting on CoD4 :)

[TheLini]

Ranking has the gem of unlockable upgrades, and I do like that..

However one side of that stinks big style, you end up getting players off on their own little crusasdes to get all the badges and ribbons, and they end up forgetting about the teamplay when they are on their quest for knife kills or pistol kills..


The other point about not being able to run your own ranked servers on your own expensive dedi server is exactly what happened to the clan I used to help run, half the members buggered off to join bf2 clans cos we couldnt afford to run one of them as well, then we didnt have enough members left to renew our dedi server for the next period, and the clan has pretty much fallen down.. Ok, that's partially a lack of foresight on my behalf, but I can't help but feel we would have been going strong if we could have run a BF2 ranked server on our machine..

[MzaNike]

At least there is nothing big that I can add to the pre-posters...
A lot of our guys really liked BF2.
We had several game-servers on an own root (MoHAA, CS:S, COD, etc..).
We also started up an own un-ranked server, but less people to play on, because they were hot on raising their ranked status.
Its not that I do not like ranking systems, but how shall little clans pay this?
Not all are professional players, like we play it as a hobby and for fun and are not (all) able and willing to set up a doubled clan-fee for the ranked solution..
At least I payed a lot of Money for the game, why should I pay again on a 2nd monthly way to have all features enabled?

What I do also not understand in this discussion, that ranked has got to have the consquence of renting from GSPs?

With all its Top-Programmers at EA, I can not believe that there is no other way of setting this up?

I do not know details about on how this all works (so sorry for wrong thinking), but:
On other games there exist a lot 3rd party tools, which do also ensure specific settings which are set for playing wars, etc...

Why does EA not implement a kind of tool, which controlls e.g. all server settings, and if they fit the "EA-Standard", the server is attached to the ranking-system?
I wouldnt even care if this scan would tak 30 minutes...as long as this would be an option.
This would enable the possibility of small clans to use their own server and choose, if they want to play their mods, or if they would like to play the ranked-system without renting a GSP product for a lot of money...

BTW: Do you really think, that EA does not get money from the "licensed" GSPs? lol

[Busterking]

If MOH:A requires ranked servers, our 10-78 clan is also out and we'll make sure that none of our 100 clan members buys the game.

There's NO NEED for ranked servers.

[OldDog]

Well, my 2 cents: There are 2 types of players, folks...those who play the game for the game's sake, and those that play the game for bragging rights among their peers.

When BF2 first came out, I played, quite a bit on many different "ranked" servers, and stood there (after spawning) in amazement as every one of my so-called teammates ran off in a different direction to collect points. I thought, "ok, its a new game, maybe this is a crappy server, or just has a bunch of smacktards playing"...so, I tried another server, and another, and another. Then, on the FINAL server, I found that you weren't welcome unless you were at least a corporal (or sergeant, I forget which)...literally, weren't welcome to play on a public server. That's when I uninstalled the game.

This game, IMHO, is set up and marketed to capture console players into the PC genre. The ranking garbage is designed with that in mind, I believe. Its bragging rights standing at Joe's locker, in school, on Monday morning.

2142 is a little better, although, frankly, I disagree with the "unlocking" stuff, as I did (and still do) with the weapons loadouts increase in UO as you climb in rank. I am, and always have been, a 'realism' player (or, as close as you can get in a game). In the real world, you don't increase the weapons types/loadouts as you go up in rank, you DECREASE them. I never saw an officer carrying 200 rounds of ammo, and a grunt with 50. If you think about it, it makes no sense. Soldiers are armed with what they need to get the job done...the more grenades an infantryman can carry, the better. That said, I do believe that a ranking system is ok in some cases: as you progress in rank, you acquire more responsibility...i.e., binoculars and radio for artillery, and leadership of a section, squad or platoon. Cooperation with leadership, and teamwork, should also be rewarded. Both BF2 and 2142 have a semblance of this with their "assist" feature. UO does not.

Airborne should have some/all of these features if its to be successful with the first category of players I mentioned, above...which includes me. If EA wants to court the "Joe's locker" crowd with ranked servers, fine, but if they want my business, there has better be a provision for independent server admins to do their thing. I'm with Diva...I'll stick to CoD (my server is now back to UO...I got fed up with CoD2), or revert to MOHAA:S.

- OD over and out...:salute:

[rudedog]

very well said OD

I had the same experience but it was a game called Delta Force a long time ago. What's the best way to segment a community?, ranked vs public servers but we called them stats vs pubs back then.

I can see EA wanting to draw people in but you need to let them do their own thing and not make fancy weapons the draw, let them have rank but let us have all the options we want in a our public servers. Also remember we don't know if Ranked servers will be carried over to MOHA, I personaly hope not.

OD, you really need to try POE2 for BF2 on a server called Tactical Gamer. They have a script that you must join a squad in 90 sec or get kicked, everyone has to listen to the SL and CO.

This has to be by far the best team oriented server I've played on in a long time with a great MOD.

[OldDog]

very well said OD

I can see EA wanting to draw people in but you need to let them do their own thing and not make fancy weapons the draw, let them have rank but let us have all the options we want in a our public servers. Also remember we don't know if Ranked servers will be carried over to MOHA, I personaly hope not.

As I said, I really don't mind the ranking, as long as its rational, and there's some flexibility for "independents".



OD, you really need to try POE2 for BF2 on a server called Tactical Gamer. They have a script that you must join a squad in 90 sec or get kicked, everyone has to listen to the SL and CO.

This has to be by far the best team oriented server I've played on in a long time with a great MOD.

Thx, I'll give it a shot (although its going to take me awhile to re-install BF2...:)).

[rudedog]

LOL, me too

Lost a 150G raptor drive yesterday, my boot drive. Had a bad backup (thank you very much TrueImage) but I also had a new Motherboard I've been putting of installing because of the OS re installation. So I guess it all worked out in the long run.

So hopefully I can get my BF2 installed along with all my mods before the big game tomorrow.

Sorry for taking this OT guys......

[MajorWoody]

So hopefully I can get my BF2 installed along with all my mods before the big game tomorrow.
Go Pats! :D

[ButchCassidy]

This discussion about "Ranked servers" for Airborne is already being booted about on the Official Airborne forums in one way or another...

The general concensus is that they will kill the game almost immediately if they choose to go down the BF2 route..

MOH already has a very loyal fanbase and these are the people who will want to buy the game along with just about every CoD player I know.

It is almost certain that using a ranked server system for the game will seriously damage the community as unlike BF2 these players have grown up with the "Open server" system where by anyone can run a server for the game.

I do hope the Airborne team don't consider the "Ranked Option" as it will also damage the modding, mapping and even Clan communities.

[Wolverine]

This discussion about "Ranked servers" for Airborne is already being booted about on the Official Airborne forums in one way or another...

The general concensus is that they will kill the game almost immediately if they choose to go down the BF2 route..

MOH already has a very loyal fanbase and these are the people who will want to buy the game along with just about every CoD player I know.

It is almost certain that using a ranked server system for the game will seriously damage the community as unlike BF2 these players have grown up with the "Open server" system where by anyone can run a server for the game.

I do hope the Airborne team don't consider the "Ranked Option" as it will also damage the modding, mapping and even Clan communities.

Thats pretty much the one message I have been hammering over at the EA forums. I bet Blackhat is just about sick of hearing it but it means so very much to me that they don't alienate those of us who own our hardware for hosting games.

My clan started out with MOHAA and we want to return to the franchise. If they pull a ranked server stunt ,as painful as it would be, I will absolutely not buy it and will recommend to anyone who will listen not to either.

Fingers and all my toes crossed.

[Wolverine]

I have a question regarding the Servers when this comes out, This might of been answered before, But as far as EA goes I have loved every game they have put out played mohaa, BF 1942 since it came it and vietman et....

I know one reason im not buying 2142 and gave up on BF2 was becasue of the ranked servers.

Will Airborne have ranked servers or will it be just like a normal server? we can put on our Dedicated Box's?

Starting to get a reallllly bad feeling. :confused:

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/medalofhonorairborne/news.html?sid=6175943



Airborne will feature both ranked and unranked matches. Unranked matches are basically unofficial, so players can tinker with the various server settings, allowing access to unlockable upgrades. The ranked servers will basically be official, and you'll be able to build a persistent character over time, gaining access to various unlockables. These are mainly weapon upgrades, similar to those seen in the single-player game. For instance, you can unlock rifle grenades, which lets you launch grenades a lot farther than you can throw them. This persistent mode will reward long-term play, which is the obvious hope.

[ButchCassidy]

The problem here (If this is indeed what will happen for the PC release.) is that EA expect these Ranked servers to be paid for by the community and not themselves.
Ergo Clans, Gaming groups etc at hugely inflated costs from their partner game server proivders AND ONLY THESE PARTNERS.
As BF2 has shown unranked servers will recieve very very little traffic compared to ranked and this has nothing to do with the service or anything else it is purely has to do with all the little extras that players get from ranked servers which are excluded on unranked.
Thereby favouring ranked servers and encouraging players away from unranked servers because of this.
Hugely unfair in my opinion and costly if you want one these ranked servers because of said partners.

Another problem is, if this system is anything like the BF2 system then Custom content will simply not be available to play or use in anyway so how does help the MOH community that that has relied upon custom content to survive this long or the same community that now for the most part operates servers that either they own or run on dedicated boxes.

All those Clans or groups who have there own hardeware will be excluded from the ranked system.
And there are a huge amount of them in not only the MOH community but in the online gaming community in general.

This will be EA imposing a ranking system upon a community that has traditionally always had loads of choice when it came to server setups and the inclusion of custom content.
This desicion will undoubtably drive many modders and mappers away from this game and it will split the community right down the middle.
Something that Blackhat was made very aware of in the many forums he visited.

The death of creativity is nigh....

[necrodoggy]

"these are the type of questions we are not allowed to talk about yet"

So, how about you talk about it now.

[rudedog]

** update from Blackhat regarding Ranked servers - yes he still emails me after my review :salute:
As of right now we are shipping with No Ranked program.
That means:
- No unlocks (there’s a system that lets you pick running with all weapon upgrades on, or all off on a ded server)
- No stats kept by EA
- No stat that they can track themselves
- They can run the server we are releasing
received from Blackhat today.